Please help-court apperance March 18,2005

[bccka]

What is the name of your state?NY
Hello,
I have a question about support payments. My husband and I got married when his daughter was 14. During the year that she lived with us she repeatedly broke the house rules. my husband and I started finding letters that talked about underage drinking and using marijuana. My husband grounded her. To make a long story short she ran away to her maternal aunts house.(her mother died when she was little). Instead of telling her she needed to come back home her aunt dragged my husband into court and requested custody of her. She tried to get us into trouble with protective services. Unfortunately for her all of the accusations were unfounded. They were all blatant lies. My husband told the judge that if she really did not want to live with us(she threatened to run away) that she could stay with her aunt. The judge agreed, and said that my husband could visit with her at any time. At that time his daughter was receiving $700 some odd dollars in survivors benefits. My husband told the judge that if she was going to live there he was not paying additional child support because she left of her own free will and had $700 a month. The judge agreed to this. For the next 3 years we had very little contact with his daughter. When she turned 18(her survivor benefits stopped-coincidence?) her uncle picked several fights with her. The end result was that she left their home and moved in with a boyfriend. They lived together for a while and then when they broke up she contacted us. She said she had no way to move her stuff and didn't have anywhere to live. We told her that she was more than welcome to live with us. She refused. So we helped her find a trailer to live in about 5 minutes from us. She had a friend move in and they shared expenses. During that time we gave her money for food,bills,etc. She met a boy(picked him up off the street) and took him home. They have been together ever since.
My husband's daughter is now 19, she and her boyfriend lived in an apartment and she got pregnant. During the pregnancy we again gave them money, groceries,etc. After the baby they stayed with us through the month of September 2004. They moved in with us in October and stayed through the end of January. During this time she and her boyfriend became engaged and opened checking and savings accounts together. When her boyfriend started sleeping all day and not helping out and becoming mean to my children he was told that he would have to leave. Needless to say my step-daughter went with him. She was not told to leave. In fact she was told that she and the baby could stay with us.
Now we have received papers from family court telling us that we have to pay child support to her. Am I wrong to fight this. I don't feel that I or my husband should be obligated to pay child support to support her,the baby and her fiancee. He was fired from his job and she works 2 days a week. He also has another child(2yrs old) with another girl. So my money will probably go to pay his other child's child support so he won't go to jail and also allow him to lay around and do nothing. The fiancee is nothing but trouble.
My husband and I are going to see an attorney. We are fighting the support issue based on the fact that we have been providing her with money and support since she turned 18. Her aunt has completely dropped out of the picture(how convenient). I am looking for any advice any one has that could help me out. During the time that they lived with us I am positive that they were stealing money out of my purse.
I am completely frustrated with the whole system. As far as I am concerned she declared herself an adult and not in need of us the day her aunt was given custody of her. We have bent over backwards for her and are now being punished by NY state. At least now you know why our taxes are so high!

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state?NY
Hello,
I have a question about support payments. My husband and I got married when his daughter was 14. During the year that she lived with us she repeatedly broke the house rules. my husband and I started finding letters that talked about underage drinking and using marijuana. My husband grounded her. To make a long story short she ran away to her maternal aunts house.(her mother died when she was little). Instead of telling her she needed to come back home her aunt dragged my husband into court and requested custody of her. She tried to get us into trouble with protective services. Unfortunately for her all of the accusations were unfounded. They were all blatant lies. My husband told the judge that if she really did not want to live with us(she threatened to run away) that she could stay with her aunt. The judge agreed, and said that my husband could visit with her at any time. At that time his daughter was receiving $700 some odd dollars in survivors benefits. My husband told the judge that if she was going to live there he was not paying additional child support because she left of her own free will and had $700 a month. The judge agreed to this. For the next 3 years we had very little contact with his daughter. When she turned 18(her survivor benefits stopped-coincidence?) her uncle picked several fights with her. The end result was that she left their home and moved in with a boyfriend. They lived together for a while and then when they broke up she contacted us. She said she had no way to move her stuff and didn't have anywhere to live. We told her that she was more than welcome to live with us. She refused. So we helped her find a trailer to live in about 5 minutes from us. She had a friend move in and they shared expenses. During that time we gave her money for food,bills,etc. She met a boy(picked him up off the street) and took him home. They have been together ever since.
My husband's daughter is now 19, she and her boyfriend lived in an apartment and she got pregnant. During the pregnancy we again gave them money, groceries,etc. After the baby they stayed with us through the month of September 2004. They moved in with us in October and stayed through the end of January. During this time she and her boyfriend became engaged and opened checking and savings accounts together. When her boyfriend started sleeping all day and not helping out and becoming mean to my children he was told that he would have to leave. Needless to say my step-daughter went with him. She was not told to leave. In fact she was told that she and the baby could stay with us.
Now we have received papers from family court telling us that we have to pay child support to her. Am I wrong to fight this. I don't feel that I or my husband should be obligated to pay child support to support her,the baby and her fiancee. He was fired from his job and she works 2 days a week. He also has another child(2yrs old) with another girl. So my money will probably go to pay his other child's child support so he won't go to jail and also allow him to lay around and do nothing. The fiancee is nothing but trouble.
My husband and I are going to see an attorney. We are fighting the support issue based on the fact that we have been providing her with money and support since she turned 18. Her aunt has completely dropped out of the picture(how convenient). I am looking for any advice any one has that could help me out. During the time that they lived with us I am positive that they were stealing money out of my purse.
I am completely frustrated with the whole system. As far as I am concerned she declared herself an adult and not in need of us the day her aunt was given custody of her. We have bent over backwards for her and are now being punished by NY state. At least now you know why our taxes are so high!

I know that the age of majority in NY is 21. However with these circumstances I don't see how a judge could consider your husband responsible for child support. Who filed for support? Mom or the daughter?..or was it the state because the daughter filed for welfare benefits?
Your husband really DOES need an attorney.

 

[bccka]

Hi,
The state is demanding the support because she received money and food stamps and medicaid. The kicker is the money they want repaid is for September and October through the 12th I think. His daughter moved in with us at the beginning of October-essentially she commited welfare fraud and they expect us to pay. I am not sure if she has applied for more benefits since they left at the end of january. The address she has listed with the courts isn't even where she lives. She is actually staying at her sisters house which is in the next county. We have a consultation with an attorney the 23rd. It just drives me insane that I have to spend my income tax return on an attorney. I am not sure if I mentioned it, but I also received court papers for support and she is my step-daughter. My husband and I received seperate court papers. Both papers are requesting the same amount of money. I am not sure if this was just a mix-up, or is the DSS trying to double dip and get paid the same amount twice. I guess I posted to see if I am wrong in feeling the way I do. It drives me insane that I might be forced to support an adult her child and her fiancee. i have 3 kids of my own, and lots and lots of medical bills. My money could definitley be putnto better use! Thanks again for the response. It makes me feel a little better to know that i am not the only one who thinks this is insane.

 

[BL]

http://www.empirestatecoalition.org/parents.html

What are the legal implications for parents who kick their child out of home before the child's 21st birthday?
A. (a) According to the Domestic Relations Law 32 and Family Court Act 413, parents, if they are financially able, are responsible for the support of their children until they reach 21. Parents cannot be required to support their children over 21 unless there is an express agreement in place between that parent and child.
In New York State, abandonment of a child under the age of 14 is a crime (New York State Penal Law 260). A parent, who refuses to support a child under the age of 16, can be charged with the crime of non-support.
Generally, a parent is not responsible for a contract signed by a minor. However, under the "Doctrine of Necessaries," a parent and minor may be held responsible for a minor's contract for essential items (food, shelter, clothing).
(b) Minors living on their own may be responsible for their own health care. However, based on the legal obligation of parents to support their children, parents can be held liable for the cost of the child's medical care when a minor is living at home, even if they (the parents) have not given consent. This is true in the case of an emergency medical treatment.
(c) When a youth under the age of 21, leaves home without parental consent and without "good cause," or refuses to obey the reasonable rules set by their parents, the young person may forfeit his/her claim to parental support. If the child leaves home because the conditions are unbearable, the parents may not be relieved of the obligation to support the young person. However, the young person may have to bring the parents to Family Court to obtain support in such cases.
Q. IV.3 What recourse does a parent have with an incorrigible child?
A. Parents can file a Person In Need of Supervision (PINS) Petition against their "incorrigible" children who are under the age of 18. With an older youth, the parent may be able to obtain an Order of Protection from the Family Court if the child is 18 or older and the "incorrigibility" constitutes a Family Offense.
_____________________________

Are you saying they received State aid while living with you and now the State wants you to pay them back ?

At any rate Prove that your daughter had been out of your home on her own ( By her choice ) and ( approval by the Court - with NO support payments on your part ) .

Argue the Fact that you provided a roof over their head for a short time and again she Chose to Leave ( see C ) .

Argue the Fact if it weren't for you a baby wouldn't have had a place to sleep , and if they had gone to DSS to begin with , DSS would have paid out way more than they did .

 

[bccka]

Hi,
To answer the questions, apparently she did receive money for October. At least until the 12th. When they came to stay with us the boyfriend was working. I never questioned where they got money from-I guess I figured it was from his paycheck. They never came out and told us they were receiving assistance. Because they had no money(at least that I didn't know about)they couldn't pay their rent,that's why they came to stay with us. But the money they received from social services must have been blown on whatever they felt like. Live and learn I guess. My husband has 2 other children-both over 21. The sad thing is the only time he here's from them is if they need something fixed on their cars, or money. The daughter that we are being taken to court over has proven to be a habitual liar. I am not sure whether she doesn't understand that there are consequences for lieing to everyone or if she doesn't care. The sad part is that the courts have since she was 15 basically told her that she can do what she wants. Hence being told it was ok to move to aunt's because she was involved in drinking, drugs etc. and didn't like it when she was punished for it. Now, the courts are saying its ok to get pregnant, get engaged, have a baby and sit on your butt. She has no intention of getting a full-time self supporting job and her fiancee is an extremely lazy human being. He got fired from his job. He also has a 2 year old with another girl. So our support payments will be used to pay his child support.
So in summary, she was never kicked out, she has been given ample opportunity to live with us and has chosen to leave and stay with the boyfriend now fiancee. We have continued to give her money,food,etc. since she started talking to us when she turned 18. I just think its pathetic that my husband and I both work and we are being told that we have to support someone who has chosen more than once to voluntarily leave our home and not work.
We are also being told that we have to pay back the medicaid she received fro Sept1,2004-Oct13,2004. Correct me if I am wrong but this is all post-natal care.Just about 6 weeks to be exact. The baby's father is responsible for that! I nor my husband had anything to do with impregnating her. That was all about those two.
Thanks again for everyone's responses. They have definitley helped me see that I am not wrong in feeling this way.

 

[BL]

In your first post you stated your husband is going to get an attorney .

He should have a consult first before retaining one .

He should make very clear to the Lawyer If he retains him/her that they will fight vigorously against any payments . Your husband had a Court Order of NO support . Make sure the Court takes JUDICIAL NOTICE of it ( that is present it to the court , and request the court take Judicial notice of it .

Then vigorously state that anything he did after that was solely out of the goodness of his heart and to keep a baby off the streets , and he should now NOT be held responsible after the fact of a prior COURT ORDER .

 

[bccka]

Thank you Blonde Lebinese

Hi,
Thank you Blonde Lebinese for all your help. I should have been a little clearer. Our appt. with the attorney on the 23rd is a consultation. I really do appreciate all of your help. It makes me feel a little bit better about having to go to court. I would hate to walk in and be blind-sided without any info. at all.
Sincerely,
bccka

 

[bccka]

This just keeps getting better with my step-daughter and DSS

Hi,
I feel like Alice in Wonderland-things just keep getting curioser and curioser. I found out that my step-daughter's fiancee was on her Social Services case at the time that they received money. But, his parent's have NOT been summoned to court. I am completely confused as to why we are expected to pay the full amount back that they received, and his parent's are not being held responsible for anything. The only thing I found out is that his father was sent a letter pertaining to child support and he sent them back several letters stating that he was not going to pay and they dropped it. Isn't there some law that says if one child's parents are going to be held responsible then the other child's parents are too? This is basically saying that they won't pay their share so we'll stick you with the whole bill. Next thing I hear will be that since her fiancee's parents won't pay child support for him then maybe we should LOL. I am so angry I don't know whether to scream or throw-up. We have our consultation with an attorney tomorrow. I hope I don't explode in his office. At this rate I'll have a heart attack-my blood pressure must be sky high!
So,
to sum it up the DSS in NY is full of bull crap-they are seriously trying to pull a shaft job by making us repay the full amount of money my step-daughter and her fiancee received even though he is only 18(a minor in NY) and technically his parent's should be responsible for half of the money. I need an attorney to stand up in court for me and tell them to go to hell-to try to play their bull crap games with somebody else. If i don't hire one I will probably be tossed in jail for contempt of court for cussing everyone out. i am that ticked. I just thought I would add some info. to the saga that is my life right now.
Thanks,
bccka

 

[bccka]

Another quick question

Hi,
My husband and I went to court for this. My step-daughter did not show up. The judge has said that he will be ordering $0 for child support. The problem now? The attorney for the DSS is stating that we should carry health insurance on her. She is 19-our insurance only covered her through her 17th birthday. Once she turned 18 they dropped her. They would ahev continued carrying the insurance IF she is in school full-time(college). Unfortunately that doesn't fit in with her and her fiancees plan for their life. Our insurance company won't give us a rider policy for her because she is a smoker and has pre-existing medical conditions(caused by her pregnancy). So, all of the insurance quotes I got were from $250-$450 per month. Can the court make us pay that? I am not working and we live off of my husbands check. We have 3 kids at home all under the age of 12. My step-daughter has health insurance available to her for $12 a week. Her fiancee started a job and gets full medical benefits-of course they aren't married and she refuses to get married.(I am confused as to why she will be engaged to be married but won't actually do it) My step-daughter doesn't make a ton of money, $6.25/hour about 25-35 sometimes 40 hours a week. But, she and her fiancee are living with his mother. They pay absolutely no bills, not rent, phone, cable anything. He makes around $8/hour and works a full 50 hour work week.
Can the court insist that we pay for her health insurance? If she gets pregnant again we will end up paying for another baby(they have 1) that we didn't create. Does anyone have any thoughts or knowledge on this? Any help you can give will be GREATLY appreciated.
Thank you.

 

[BL]

Again DSS is trying to pull a fast one .

If they threaten to take you back to Court , ask the judge to take Judicial Notice of 0$$ for CS . Also inform the court she can get ins, for 12.00 or whatever .

Technically , Parents are responsible until the age of 21 , BUT if they are living on their own , supporting themselves and can cover themselves , they are considered emancipated , even though there are no Emancipation Laws per say in NY. Tell Dss to shove it . Them DSS lawyers really tick me off. I was in representing a client of theirs . The DSS lawyer actually accused me of Lying on an issue before when i was in there . I argued right back , then sent letters to DDS commissioner , Law Dept. , and Albany , citing the Albany decision stating the same thing I did . She was trying to pull a fast one , and ruining my character .