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  1. #1
    boosmom2 is offline Member
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    Red face Purge Policy for NC Support Arrears

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NC

    May be confusing so bear with me a minute... NCP ordered to pay $446 in Jan 08 and provide health insurance. Cancelled insurance and went back for modification in March 08 changing order to $490 which had an error in daycare expenses which I realized once I got the paperwork. 60b motion was filed to make adjustments (aka, we screwed up motion). In the meantime NCP filed motion to modify/reduce. 60b and modification were heard May 21st, 2008. At that hearing support was set at $503 plus $17 for arrears and his motion was denied and his testimony that he is making less than $2k a month was found NOT credible since he just bought a house and put down $22k with a $1200 mortgage and purchased 2 other rental properties in 2007 with total down payment of over $60k? WOW is right all on a salary of less than $24k a year? And, yes he is lucky they only charge his at $24k a year because that is obviously not the real story, but he is self employed!

    He has only made one payment of $504 in June which was random since it was $16 short of the ordered amount, but he is just dumb like that. Therw was over 90 days arrears at the May 21st hearing but when the judge told him his testimony was not credible they started arguing and she told him to leave, he stormed out and the arrears never got addressed (yes, the legal system sucks!). So that day my case worker file a motion to show cause and the earliest available date was/is Sept 9th. On July 9th he went in and filed another motion to modify (because the 5 times we have been there in the past year have not allowed the courts to figure he is a liar!) Of course because the system is fair to all parties (please note my laughter he was able to get that same Sept 9th date to be heard for a reduction.

    This week we had our permanent custody trial and thank God I was awarded sole custody because he has not complied with any orders of the court and missed 64 of 80 visits in 6 months. As of Sept 9th when we go to support court he will be $3231 in arrears with a compliance arrears of $2229. Trust me, I know this is a miniscule amount compared to most people, but my daughter just turned 1 and I am not looking to watch this amount go up every month while he gets his every other weekend visit. Her daycare alone is $1055 a month which is actually one of the less expensive daycares in our community and I need his help. On Sept 9th our new figures with daycare now added should take his new amount to $776 which is going to shock him since he is going for a reduction.

    OK, now my question... Any experience in NC on arrears purges? I would like to ask the judge for a purge of the entire amount of the arrears since he is obviously willfully avoiding paying (he paid me $3k on a deed of trust I help on a rental property when he had 5 year so he obviously has money). I hear that it is typically closer to 10%. If so that is crazy and it is no wonder there was $106 BILLION in uncollected support. I know it is at the judges discretion as to the amount, but does anyone know what is typical and if there is ANYTHING I can do to make sure this amount is as high as possible. I am sick of fighting about it but taking $17 a month for arrears and then letting him get another $3k behind to accept $300 and then increase it to $24 a month for arrears seems silly. I have a friend who has an arrears payment for her kids that her ex will pay off when the youngest is 42 if he stays current (she just turned 8!)

    Any advise on evidence or anything to get the higest purge amount would be greatly appreciated!
  2. #2
    hearts41 is offline Member
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    CIVIL CONTEMPT PROCEEDINGS
    Civil Contempt proceedings can be initiated when the obligor fails to abide by the terms of a voluntary support agreement or a civil court order that arose out of a hearing before a judge or jury.

    The following is an explanation of civil contempt procedures:

    Proceedings for Civil Contempt as specified under G.S. 5A-23 are initiated either by order or notice of a judicial official (Clerk or assistant Clerk per G.S. 7A-103(5)) or by a judge, directing the responsible parent to appear at a specified time, not less than five (5) days after notice (N.C.R.C. 6d) and show cause why he/she should not be held in contempt.
    A verified motion requesting that it be treated as an affidavit meets this requirement.
    The judicial official issuing the order to show cause must make a finding of probable cause to believe that Civil Contempt exists.
    Failure to comply with an order of the court is a continuing civil contempt, if all of the following conditions are met:
    The order remains in force;
    The purpose of the order can still be served by compliance with the order; and
    The person to whom the order is directed is able to comply or able to take reasonable measures that enable him to comply.
    The order of the court finding civil contempt must specify how the noncustodial parent (NCP) can purge himself. An individual can also be found in criminal contempt for the same conduct, but total imprisonment for the same conduct cannot exceed the period of imprisonment for civil or criminal contempt (G.S. 5A-12), whichever is longer. It should be specified on the motion for an order to show cause whether the individual is being brought before the court on civil or criminal contempt.
    Release from civil contempt must be granted when it no longer exists, whether by non-existence of one of the three conditions above, or by the individual purging himself of contempt. No order of release is required if the custodian finds compliance with the specified method by which the person can purge himself/herself. Otherwise, the judge before whom the civil contempt was found, if available, or a judge of the same division in the same district (upon motion by the NCP) can order his/her release.


    PURGE PAYMENTS
    The county Clerk of Court's office accepts all payments deemed a purge by court order, and the NCP should not mail these payments directly to NCCSCC. When the judge enters a contempt order, the Clerk completes a Child Support Payment Transmittal (AOC-CV-641) and indicates the purge payment type. The Clerk issues and mails a check and the original of the payment transmittal to NCCSCC. A copy of the transmittal is included in the court file. The Clerk only accepts money orders, certified checks, or cash as purge payments.

    The payment transmittal alerts NCCSCC to receipt the purge payment to the docket number and MPI # of this case; ACTS does not prorate the payment for this type of receipt. The NCCSCC processes a payment as a purge, lien, bond, or bank seizure only if the payment and payment transmittal comes from the Clerk of Court.

    The court order reflecting the purge provisions is considered sufficient documentation to the Clerk who is accepting the payment. Therefore, it is extremely important that any court orders or other pertinent documents be produced as soon a possible and copies given to all the parties.

    The Magistrate's office or Sheriff's department takes purge payments during non-business hours and releases obligors from jail based on receipt of the payment. These payments are receipted, a copy of the receipt given to the obligor, and the commitment order and payment turned over to the Clerk of Court's office, who then transmits funds to NCCSCC.



    PRE-COURT NEGOTIATIONS
    Some judicial districts rely very heavily on pre-court negotiations to settle child support contempt actions. However, it must be noted that Clerks of Court accept only purge payments and that these payments do not prorate across all cases if the NCP has multiple obligations. If an agreement is reached after a NCP is served with a contempt action, a contempt order containing the agreed purge amount can be completed before court and presented to the judge. If accepted by the judge, the purge provision allows the NCP to pay the Clerk of Court. The Clerk does not accept any payments resulting from other types of negotiation, such as a voluntary dismissal or consent order, that do not find the NCP in contempt and contain monetary purge provisions. The NCP must mail those types of payments to the NCCSCC.



    ADMINISTRATIVE ENFORCEMENT
    Administrative enforcement remedies other than contempt actions can be used to enforce child support obligations. For example, it might be advantageous to contact noncustodial parents (NCPs) prior to taking any other enforcement action, especially those NCPs who have recently allowed their support payments to become delinquent. If a repayment plan can be successfully negotiated, this approach can be considered as a cost savings to the CSE agency.

    If a remedy involves a repayment plan that can be negotiated to avoid the remedy (such as revocation of occupational license), CSE caseworkers must investigate whether or not the NCP has multiple obligations. Since nearly all payments made to NCCSCC are prorated across all obligations, this must be take into consideration. Otherwise, the NCP can comply with a payoff plan or an amount agreed upon to reduce arrearages, but his/her account does not reflect this due to proration. Caseworkers must either investigate this possibility before taking further enforcement action or allow for the proration when initially establishing a repayment plan. It is important to remind the NCP that payments must be current on all cases if he/she expects to reduce arrearages on the case for which the enforcement action originally might have been taken.






    For questions or clarification on any of the policy contained in these manuals, please contact your local county office.
  3. #3
    boosmom2 is offline Member
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    I know and understand that it is totally up to the judge to decide purge amounts?

    Any experience out there on a percentage I should expect and/or anything I can do to maximize the amount the judge will require?

    My daughter just turned a year with NCP already behind nearly $4k and $3k of that is compliance not retro or repayment arrears. I can now see how within a blink of an eye the arrears can be $10's of thousands with the repayment plans they put NCP on.

    I wish they had those type of repayment plans for my mortgage and car payments Good news is... Looks like there are many of us out there that don't need to worry about social security going bankrupt as we will all be collecting support from NCP until we die!
  4. #4
    hearts41 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosmom2 View Post
    I know and understand that it is totally up to the judge to decide purge amounts?

    Any experience out there on a percentage I should expect and/or anything I can do to maximize the amount the judge will require?

    My daughter just turned a year with NCP already behind nearly $4k and $3k of that is compliance not retro or repayment arrears. I can now see how within a blink of an eye the arrears can be $10's of thousands with the repayment plans they put NCP on.

    I wish they had those type of repayment plans for my mortgage and car payments Good news is... Looks like there are many of us out there that don't need to worry about social security going bankrupt as we will all be collecting support from NCP until we die!
    I live in FL, while our CSE laws differ no doubt, my x was at one point in arrears to the tune of around 9,000. He was ordered to pay an additional $35.90 a week towards the arrears, its finally paid down to around 5,000. CSE has only taken him to court one time for contempt and he has been in arrears since then time after time. I finally took him to court for contempt. CSE does their best most of the time I think, they just have a huge caseload.
    Luckily in my state the arrears doesn't expire, he will over it forever until its paid, collecting is a whole different story.
    But he is paying better now than he ever did.
    Other steps available to you, check with your state laws, Income Tax Intercept.
  5. #5
    boosmom2 is offline Member
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    I am familiar with tax intercept, however he is "self-employed". He owes taxes at the end of the year and doesn't get a return. We have been to court 5 times this year already and he has yet to produce 1 single document or bank statement that would show them what he is making and he keeps answering "I don't know, but it is not $2k a month". That is all he has ever said.

    When you say YOU filed for contempt... did you actually do it or did CSE do it for you? They seem to be very overwelmed but certainly know who I am since I seem to have to guide them along to take any action thus far including or 60b (they screwed up) to revise the order to the appropriate figure.

    I have been told I can move the case to civil proceedings and then when he is more than 30 days behind I can go and file a motion to show cause myself. I have found out from speaking with civil proceedings several times that typically you can get in within 2-3 weeks compared to the 4-5 months it takes CSE to get a date. In our county Friday is reserved for pro se support cases and they have way more opening than CSE. I am told collection is the same for accounting. He has to pay clerk of courts instead of CSE and they apply it to the KidsCard debit that we have now. From what I understand the only difference is that I have to file the paperwork and when we go I have to aks him the questions and I am responsible for knowing his assets?

    Anyone with any experience here? Anyone ever go the civil (do-it-yourself) route? Is it any easier/harder to collect. I am having a hard time not seeing the benefit since we can get into court 3-4 months sooner each time and the arrears should not accumulate. Keeping in mind that I work at the courthouse so there is little to no hassle for me to go to the 11th floor and ask for a date and walk across the street to send Sheriif service is there any reason I should be aware of as to why I don't want to take care of it myself?
  6. #6
    hearts41 is offline Member
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    Yes, I did the contempt charges myself, twice now. Once this year and about six years ago. My court date took forever, filed in December, court date was May, and that was requesting it be heard by a Magistrate, a judge would have even been longer.

    You said you have been to court five times and he has yet to produce financials? IMHO, file a motion asking for these. Seems odd the judge set CS on your x's direct testimony of " I don't make 2,000 a month" but who knows.
  7. #7
    boosmom2 is offline Member
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    I am sorry I dont know what IMHO is?

    I am the one that stated that he makes at least $2k a month because I was his most recent employer until we split and now he is "self-employed". I know I should have never hooked up with an employee IT was really hard for him to say "No, I wasn't making that" with no records and I was his direct supervisor. So without his paperwork and the fact his has 3 rental properties he purchased last year (putting over $60k down) they had to take my word that he makes at least that and yes all of us knowing that is BS!

    He was doing construction work on the side, but I could not add that in because I had no way of proving it and it was my word against his since he said he was not. They have supeanaed (sp?) his financial documents every time and he doesn't bring them, but I have agreed to settle that he makes $2k a month. He keeps coming back however stating that he doesn't with no proof so they keep denying the motion. However this time it is nearly a year since I was his employer so I have no records for them to use.

    Were you able to file yourself and still use CSE? Or do you take care of your entire case yourself now? FYI: We have been there 5 times because our original had to be held over because they ran out of time, he cancelled insurance, then a 60b (admin revisions b/c CSE screwed up) 2 motions for reduction by him (of course NCP can get a date within 3 weeks) and we will go back a 6th time since Feb -THIS YEAR!- on his 3rd motion for reduction and my failure to comply for him. Is contempt something different? Does CSE handle that or is it something else?
  8. #8
    boosmom2 is offline Member
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    Some Relief Hopefully

    I went into the office of CSE today at just the right time. I was suppose to bring my caseworker my new income information and although we have never met she didn't even need a file to tell me what was going on. She had just had a not so pleasant conversation with NCP which had her hightailing it to the office of the states attorney.

    They have been able to access NCP's personal bank accounts (has lots more $$ in just one than owed) as well as the deed information showing what NCP put down on 3 homes in 9 months. Then NCP went on to whine about costs of vacant rentals, renovation costs between leases, personal mortgage... All that told the caseworker and the states attorney in their documenting of NCP's statements was that NCP has spent over $40k this year alone. NCP would never tell them what actual income is (although them and the judge have certainly asked multiple times) just that it's not enough to pay any sort of CS at all after all those expenses.

    Long story short is that finally NCP has got the attention of someone other than myself to get CS paid. She seemed more upset and determined that even I have been able to muster up in any day throughout this, but NCP can be a little abrasive especially when it comes to money leaving the pocket.

    I am not sure the details of their converstation but she assured NCP and I that she will be requesting not only the total arrears as a purge but also the September payment as well when we are there. She assured me that the states attorney has said there is no way the modification to reduce will be granted.

    I think the lesson learned is... Let the CS workers do their job, but make sure you stay in touch with them when needed and be willing to help them with any information that they may need. And, never, never lose your patience with them.
  9. #9
    TheGeekess is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosmom2 View Post
    Long story short is that finally NCP has got the attention of someone other than myself to get CS paid. She seemed more upset and determined that even I have been able to muster up in any day throughout this, but NCP can be a little abrasive especially when it comes to money leaving the pocket.

    <snip, snap, snup>

    I think the lesson learned is... Let the CS workers do their job, but make sure you stay in touch with them when needed and be willing to help them with any information that they may need. And, never, never lose your patience with them.
    Oh, believe me, there is no greater anger than a CSE lady who thinks she's being jerked around by a NCP! But it's good to have a bull-dog on your side, isn't it?
  10. #10
    boosmom2 is offline Member
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    Honestly... Today is the most relief I have had throughout this process. I have always been a small dog person, but I think I might adopt this bull-dog and keep her since I have 17 years let with NCP

    Thanks everyone for the great information and responses on this site.
  11. #11
    boosmom2 is offline Member
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    Update from Court Hearing

    Well we had court yesterday. NCP did not show up. His motion for decrease was denied. Our motion to show cause for failure to pay was granted and an arrest warrant was issued. The judge set the purge bond to the full amount of compliance arrears of $2496.

    He had our daughter last night and when I picked her up after putting baby in the van, I asked him outside the van why he didn't show up and he said he didn't feel like it. I asked if he wanted to know what happened and he said sure with a smirk. I told him "Your motion to reduce was dismissed and the motion for failure to pay was granted and a warrant for your arrest was issued. You have 3 options. 1. You can go and pay at the clerks office and then go to the Sheriff with a reciept and work something out. 2. You can turn yourself in and speak with the judge about a possible lower amount she will accept to let you out. 3. You can wait for them to arrest you in which case you will still have to pay to be released."

    He replied with "Tell them good luck finding me." Got in his truck and drove off! He is suppose to visit with little boo tomorrow and Saturday. I spoke with the Sheriff's office yesterday before I left the courthouse to ask what they do if he has our daughter when they arrest him and they said they call CPS and I can get her from them. What would a judge think if I denied visits while an active arrest warrant was out for NCP? I grew up in foster homes and had CPS in my life until I was 18, nearly 20 years ago. I don't want my daughters name ever to run across their files. How can I prevent that? Can I file and emergency ex-parte to suspend visits until arrest warrant is lifted? The Sheriff's office said they will start looking for him today and his next visit is tomorrow. Please help!
  12. #12
    Gracie3787 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosmom2 View Post
    Well we had court yesterday. NCP did not show up. His motion for decrease was denied. Our motion to show cause for failure to pay was granted and an arrest warrant was issued. The judge set the purge bond to the full amount of compliance arrears of $2496.

    He had our daughter last night and when I picked her up after putting baby in the van, I asked him outside the van why he didn't show up and he said he didn't feel like it. I asked if he wanted to know what happened and he said sure with a smirk. I told him "Your motion to reduce was dismissed and the motion for failure to pay was granted and a warrant for your arrest was issued. You have 3 options. 1. You can go and pay at the clerks office and then go to the Sheriff with a reciept and work something out. 2. You can turn yourself in and speak with the judge about a possible lower amount she will accept to let you out. 3. You can wait for them to arrest you in which case you will still have to pay to be released."

    He replied with "Tell them good luck finding me." Got in his truck and drove off! He is suppose to visit with little boo tomorrow and Saturday. I spoke with the Sheriff's office yesterday before I left the courthouse to ask what they do if he has our daughter when they arrest him and they said they call CPS and I can get her from them. What would a judge think if I denied visits while an active arrest warrant was out for NCP? I grew up in foster homes and had CPS in my life until I was 18, nearly 20 years ago. I don't want my daughters name ever to run across their files. How can I prevent that? Can I file and emergency ex-parte to suspend visits until arrest warrant is lifted? The Sheriff's office said they will start looking for him today and his next visit is tomorrow. Please help!
    Speak to someone at the Sheriff's office. Let them know about the warrant, and let them know what time he is supposed to pick up your daughter. Hopefully, they will work with you and he can be arrested before he picks her up. A friend did this a few years ago, she sent her son to my house (2 doors down) so that he wouldn't see his father being arrested. But he was still close enough in case the police didn't make the arrest.

    If the police won't work with you, you might need to file an emergency motion for suspension of visitation.
  13. #13
    boosmom2 is offline Member
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    I spoke with someone at the Sheriff's office today on the phone and they said that it will take at least 3-4 days for the warrant to be processed before it will be given to an officer and the earliest I can expect them to be looking for him is Monday.

    He picks her up from daycare during the week and we meet at a nearby shopping center for pickup. They told me that they will try to find him at home for a while first which it sounds like he plans on avoiding for a while.

    What would a judge think about an emergency temporary suspension of visits with an open arrest warrant? NCP is doing a great job with vists and I don't want to interfer with that but also don't want to risk him getting arrested while he has her. But, I also dont want the judge to think I am being extreme.

    I am going to at least wait until Monday since the visit tomorrow and this weekend don't seem to be at risk of him getting arrest. How long (hours, days, weeks) does it take to get an emergency order for a suspension of visits? Are there standard NC forms? Do you go to the judges courtroom or the family court office?
  14. #14
    MTHRaye is offline Member
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    What is correct calculation?

    Well it didn't take them long to find NCP. Sheriff called me about 4pm and said they had him and he was being processed. They told me that his purge bond amount is $2964. He either has to pay it or wait until Tuesday to request a reduction from the judge.

    I don't think that amount is correct from what I have read. I am not trying to get him off easy, BUT... His compliance arrears are only $1962. He started with an arrears of $1002 (which I assume are suppose to be adjudicated) to cover the time from filing to the actual order that he is ordered to pay $24/month for. Can/should they really make his purge the full amount of all the arrears?

    If he is only suppose to pay compliance arrears and doesn't pay to get out over the weekend should I mention it to CSE on Tuesday in court for them to review it or since he is pro se leave it up to him to figure out?
  15. #15
    LdiJ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTHRaye View Post
    Well it didn't take them long to find NCP. Sheriff called me about 4pm and said they had him and he was being processed. They told me that his purge bond amount is $2964. He either has to pay it or wait until Tuesday to request a reduction from the judge.

    I don't think that amount is correct from what I have read. I am not trying to get him off easy, BUT... His compliance arrears are only $1962. He started with an arrears of $1002 (which I assume are suppose to be adjudicated) to cover the time from filing to the actual order that he is ordered to pay $24/month for. Can/should they really make his purge the full amount of all the arrears?

    If he is only suppose to pay compliance arrears and doesn't pay to get out over the weekend should I mention it to CSE on Tuesday in court for them to review it or since he is pro se leave it up to him to figure out?
    The judge DID make his purge the full amount of the arrearages. Don't do him any favors. Let him figure it out for himself. Most likely he will get to negotiate a reduced amount anyway, unless some family member bails him out with the full purge.

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