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Request to establish paternity... DENIED!!!! Unethical Court Commissioner!!! HELP.

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CJane

Senior Member
With the exception of Ronin, the rest of you might want to re-evaluate your contributions to the practice of Family Law.
Interesting that Ronin gave you the exact same information as the others. Sure, s/he didn't throw in any extra, but the advice? The LEGAL INFORMATION? That remained the same. You're on the hook because you signed the paper and didn't question anything til the state wanted your money 4 years later.

You'll stay on the hook.
 


Proserpina

Senior Member
Are any of you respondents Family Law attorneys in California?

I hear and understand what is being said in the replies but you all seem to assume that a minor who signs a birth certificate (without parental consent or guidance) is fully knowledgable of what he/she is doing.

What damage (emotional or otherwise to the child) can a paternity test do if it reveals that the 'presumed father' of the child is not biologically related and has no relationship with the child
?

Because - by necessity - the law allows such a remedy to be pursued only within a certain time frame.

Please feel free to pay for a consult with local counsel who will tell you exactly what you've been told here today.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
Interesting that Ronin gave you the exact same information as the others. Sure, s/he didn't throw in any extra, but the advice? The LEGAL INFORMATION? That remained the same. You're on the hook because you signed the paper and didn't question anything til the state wanted your money 4 years later.

You'll stay on the hook.
I;m trying to figure out how I was wrong??????
 

ThomasR

Junior Member
The act of becoming a parent MEDICALLY emancipates a minor...Therefor you did not need to have parental consent to sign a document for paternity.
Blue Meanie,

Thank you. But how would you reasonably define the 'act of becoming a parent'? To me, this is an important question... could it be defined as your impregnation of a female which produces a child and/or could it also be defined as a minor whose sperm took no part in the production of a child but decides to play family anyway, without proper understanding of potential consequences. The latter leads to the question of how a minor, who is not informed of laws and statutes relevent to paternity, can be held accountable.

What binding mechanism is in place that informs minors of responsibilities and relevent statutes when signing a voluntary declaration of paternity?
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Blue Meanie,

Thank you. But how would you reasonably define the 'act of becoming a parent'? To me, this is an important question... could it be defined as your impregnation of a female which produces a child and/or could it also be defined as a minor whose sperm took no part in the production of a child but decides to play family anyway, without proper understanding of potential consequences. The latter leads to the question of how a minor, who is not informed of laws and statutes relevent to paternity, can be held accountable.
Ignorance of the law is not a defense. Even for a minor. Presumably said minor has parents or at least a legal guardian to whom questions like this could be asked, and followed up by research should it be necessary.

Children are - generally - not considered mature enough to grasp the reality of parenthood and so we try to protect them until they are at least closer to adulthood...thus our consent laws. They're in place to try and avoid this exact situation from occurring at all.

What binding mechanism is in place that informs minors of responsibilities and relevent statutes when signing a voluntary declaration of paternity?
A minor is free to seek the advice of an attorney before signing anything. It might be argued that if a child thinks himself mature enough to have sex, he's also mature enough to accept the consequences. whatever they may be. After all, isn't that effectively what the child is telling us?
 
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CJane

Senior Member
Blue Meanie,

Thank you. But how would you reasonably define the 'act of becoming a parent'? To me, this is an important question... could it be defined as your impregnation of a female which produces a child and/or could it also be defined as a minor whose sperm took no part in the production of a child but decides to play family anyway, without proper understanding of potential consequences. The latter leads to the question of how a minor, who is not informed of laws and statutes relevent to paternity, can be held accountable.

What binding mechanism is in place that informs minors of responsibilities and relevent statutes when signing a voluntary declaration of paternity?
Here's where your argument falls apart. Whether it was your sperm or not, you engaged in an act, the potential consequences of which include becoming a parent. Whether you understood those consequences properly or not, you still chose to engage in the act.

Same with signing the AOP at birth. I know there's a portion explaining that you are declaring yourself LEGALLY to be the father of the child and accept the rights and responsibilities that go along with that. Again, whether you properly understood what that meant or not, you chose to engage in the act of signing it.

Now, I tend to agree that 16 year olds have no concept of what it means to have a child and be a parent forever and ever. That doesn't stop them from having sex every day, and reproducing at a frightening rate. The fact that their minors does not negate the consequences of those choice and actions.

You had TWO YEARS during which you could have disputed the affidavit that you signed. Again, you chose not to, and in making that choice/engaging in that act of avoidance, you chose to forever be this child's parent.

Not knowing that the choices you make will result in life altering and long ranging effects doesn't get you off the hook.
 

ThomasR

Junior Member
Ignorance of the law is not a defense. Even for a minor. Presumably said minor has parents or at least a legal guardian to whom questions like this could be asked, and followed up by research should it be necessary.

Children are - generally - not considered mature enough to grasp the reality of parenthood and so we try to protect them until they are at least closer to adulthood...thus our consent laws. They're in place to try and avoid this exact situation from occurring at all.



A minor is free to seek the advice of an attorney before signing anything. It might be argued that if a child thinks himself mature enough to have sex, he's also mature enough to accept the consequences. whatever they may be. After all, isn't that effectively what the child is telling us?

Dogmatique,

Thank you for your reply. I understand your point and I agree that ignorance is no defense but then, on the other hand we do dismiss a minor as accountable in contract law, do we not, regardless of whether the minor understood his/her actions?
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Dogmatique,

Thank you for your reply. I understand your point and I agree that ignorance is no defense but then, on the other hand we do dismiss a minor as accountable in contract law, do we not, regardless of whether the minor understood his/her actions?
Such contracts can be voided.

Children, on the other hand, cannot.

(chalk and cheese - the two are not even vaguely related)
 

CJane

Senior Member
Dogmatique,

Thank you for your reply. I understand your point and I agree that ignorance is no defense but then, on the other hand we do dismiss a minor as accountable in contract law, do we not, regardless of whether the minor understood his/her actions?
Not forever, we don't.

You can't sign a contract when you're 16 and then, 5 years later, when that contract comes due, say "Oh, wait, I was a MINOR!!!! Bwahahahahaha! Gotcha!"

You had TWO YEARS (at least a portion of one of which you were NOT a minor). That time has elapsed. End of story.
 

Artemis_ofthe_Hunt

Senior Member
I hear and understand what is being said in the replies but you all seem to assume that a minor who signs a birth certificate (without parental consent or guidance) is fully knowledgable of what he/she is doing.[QUOTE/]

I believe you are getting your contexts mixed up. Minors cannot enter into a contractual agreement without parental concent. Signing a birth certificate is not a contractual agreement.

You were certainly knowledgeable of what you were doing when you were performing the act of procreation, which I believe the consequences of were fully explained to you in public schools from about the 4th grade on.




Based upon the fact that you've signed the AFFIDAVIT OF PARENTAGE (Recognition of Parentage, Declaration of Parentage) I believe that this is the definition of a LEGAL parent that you're looking for.
:rolleyes:
 
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