Retro-active child support?

[DaveNPhx]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?
Arizona

Hi all,

This is long, so please bear with me.

My 7 year old daughters mom (we'll call her "D") and I were still "together" (never married) for about 2 years after my daughter was born. When we separated, we never pursued any legal action to establish child support or visitation. We had always been able to agree on these issues. Within the last couple of years I have a new woman in my life and within the last 8-9 months "D" had left the man she had been living with for a year (we'll call him "H") and now has a new man (we'll call this one "J") living with her. She met "J" on the internet while she was living with "H". She then separated from "H" and met "J" 3-4 times in person before he moved out here from another state at the beginning of this month. I was not crazy about some things "H" did, but at least she had dated him some before they lived together. Also, since I knew "H", I never had a problem talking directly to him if I ever had a problem. I have seen and spoken to "J" exactly once in the month that he has been living in the same home as my daughter and the conversation was about 20 words long.


Prior to September of last year and for about 3 years, I was renting a room from a friend of mine in a 3br house where 2 other roommates lived. Needless to say, it was crowded and was no place that I wanted my daughter staying overnight. "D" works the night shift and leaves the house around 8:45pm and comes home at about 7:30am. After "D" left "H", she had no one to watch my daughter while she was at work, so she couldn't wait for me to move out of the house I was living in with the roommates and get a place where I could keep my daughter overnight. I met the woman I am with now while living at the roommate house and things between us got serious so we got our own house together, complete with 3 bedrooms so my daughter could have her own room. As soon as we moved into this house, my daughter began staying with us on the nights "D" worked. We had agreed that she would stay with me on those nights and we would alternate weekends. After about a month of this arrangement, "D" told me that "J" was going to be moving out here. I later advised "D" that I would continue to pay her support until the end of the year (another 3 months worth) but since I had my daughter an equal amount of time, I did not see a reason to continue paying her. The reason I did not stop the payments as soon as my daughter started staying with me is because there were a few months here and there that I did not make support payments to her, so I figured the 4 months worth of payments would compensate for this. Shortly after I told "D" I would stop paying her at the end of the year, she told me that when "J" moved out here, she intended to have my daughter stay home with him while she was at work. I told her I would not accept this until I had a chance to get to know him and I felt comfortable with my daughter staying overnight with him as the only other person in the house.

Needless to say, things escalated from that point and I told her that I was not going to back down on that issue and I was not afraid to go to court to have the matter settled if need be. After that, things calmed down so I hadn't talked anymore about going to court. I just found out that about 3 weeks ago she began the proceedings to obtain a child support order.

My first question is given that we had privately agreed on an amout for support which is supported by the fact that she did not pursue legal action until now, is it likely the court will order back child support payments?

The second question is since she agreed to the visitation arrangements until "J" moved out here, is it likely the court will un-do this arrangement simply because she has decided "J" can babysit for her while she's at work (which means she will benefit by me having to pay her child support again)?

Sorry this is so long, but there is a lot of history that I feel is relavant to the case, and I appreciate anyone that has taken the time to read through it and offer a response.

Thanks again.

 

[mbensoni]

My first question is given that we had privately agreed on an amout for support which is supported by the fact that she did not pursue legal action until now, is it likely the court will order back child support payments?

QUOTE] This happened to my husband. Him and his ex agreed on an a certain amount to be paid each week. It was after we got married, she filed for child support thru the state (to make things easier for him and her she claims). He owes over 3k in back support even though they had agreed on x amount and the state said it was supposed to be xxx amount. So the difference of xx the state says he owes her. What's really crazy is he has his daughter every weekend - once in awhile he takes her overnight during the week. AND they had verbally agreed on the x amount - BUT she said she would settle for just 1k of the back support. The system is ridiculous.

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: My first question is given that we had privately agreed on an amout for support which is supported by the fact that she did not pursue legal action until now, is it likely the court will order back child support payments?

A: There is no such thing as a privately-agreed on amount. Well, I mean there is and some people do this for a long time; but the court doesn't have to recognize it. Whether the court will order back child support depends on the math: how much you paid and how much you had her in your care. There's no way we can tell you what that decision will be because it will be based on a lot more facts than you would be able to post. The support will be determined based on the tables or statutes or rules that your state uses.


Q: The second question is since she agreed to the visitation arrangements until "J" moved out here, is it likely the court will un-do this arrangement simply because she has decided "J" can babysit for her while she's at work (which means she will benefit by me having to pay her child support again)?

A: I'm not sure what you are asking here, but the court can set up a visitation schedule and say use this if y'all can't agree on visitation.

 

[DaveNPhx]

A: There is no such thing as a privately-agreed on amount. Well, I mean there is and some people do this for a long time; but the court doesn't have to recognize it. Whether the court will order back child support depends on the math: how much you paid and how much you had her in your care. There's no way we can tell you what that decision will be because it will be based on a lot more facts than you would be able to post. The support will be determined based on the tables or statutes or rules that your state uses.

Understood. I guess my question should have been more along the lines of "is it common practice for a court to order back child support?" I paid probably 20% of what I gave her in cash, so I have no paper trail for it. My mistake, I know, and I learned my lesson. I just wasn't sure if it came to a dispute like that if the court is likely to say "no proof, no payment made" even though I do have a paper trail for x amount. Some of what I paid in cash I gave to "H" to give to her and she acknowledged she received it. I don't know if he would agree, but if it came down to it, he could testify that I did give him cash and he did give it to her, just to boost my credibility with regard to my cash payment claim.

A: I'm not sure what you are asking here, but the court can set up a visitation schedule and say use this if y'all can't agree on visitation.

What I was asking is this: "D" has been allowing my daughter to stay with me x number of days per week (incidentally, we each have her 3 nights a week and she stays with my parents one night). This has proven to be an acceptable practice while she had a need. Now that she has someone else she can use to babysit for free, she is now saying she doesn't think it's in my daughters best interest to be shuffled back and forth all through the week. While I agree that it would be better for my daughter to be in one home all week, I believe my daughter should be with either parent at all times when reasonable and since "D" wouldn't be home on the nights she works, I think it would be better for her to be with me on those nights. So the question is will the court allow her to renig<sp?> on her previous agreement with me and leave my daughter with a non-family member on the nights she works while I am willing and able to take care of her?

 

[haiku]

really, it cannot be stressed enough to beg borrow and steal if you have to, to get a lawyer, when it comes to child custody matters.

you really should consult with one in your case.

back child support, if awarded, is usually only awarded up until the time of FILING for it.

You will likely have a strong argument for 50/50 custody being as you already 'have it". the precedent has already been set. But no one has a crystal ball, and again, you would be well served with a lawyer.

but a support award does not always hinge on time spent with the kid, it also is affected by your respective incomes. So even if you were awarded 50/50 you may still end up paying, or she could end up paying YOU.

 

[DaveNPhx]

really, it cannot be stressed enough to beg borrow and steal if you have to, to get a lawyer, when it comes to child custody matters.

If I steal for it, I may need more than just a family lawer.

You will likely have a strong argument for 50/50 custody being as you already 'have it". the precedent has already been set. But no one has a crystal ball, and again, you would be well served with a lawyer.

I'm more concerned about visitation and not so much about custody, although I will be requesting joint custody in my response.

but a support award does not always hinge on time spent with the kid, it also is affected by your respective incomes. So even if you were awarded 50/50 you may still end up paying, or she could end up paying YOU.

Right. I knew this much, and again, I'm not really worried about a future child support order. I can live with whatever a court decides based on current events. I am more concerned about what a court would do about back support when we had our own arrangement in place that we both agreed to once upon a happier time.

I understand you as saying that since she filed on the 9th of this month, a court would only enforce back support from that time forward. How certain are you of this and if you are not in AZ, how likely would it be that things would be different in AZ as opposed to your state?

 

[DaveNPhx]

I dug around and found the laws in AZ regarding back support. Here is the URL for anyone interested:

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/25/00320.htm&Title=25&DocType=ARS


Basically, what this is saying is that the court can enforce back support for up to 3 years, depending on various factors. After reading this, I'm curous if anyone in AZ has experienced this first hand.