Should I trust him?

[lisars]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?PA

Currently, my ex husband and I do not have court ordered support. Just an amount that we have come up with that he pays directly to me. This amount is roughly $200 less than the state minimum for the last known salary that I have for him from about 5 years ago.

I consulted with an attorney last summer about having official custody and support orders drawn up, but my ex asked that we "deal with this between the two of us." So far, I have complied. But something is telling me while I have no reason to think he would ever stop paying support, I also thought that we would be married forever. This is enough to make me realize I'm not always too good at predicting the future.

Also, when I consulted this attorney, he had asked me to get recent pay stubs and/or copies of ex's tax returns for the last couple of years from ex to have a current income amount. He did not provide them, so we only went on the amount from time we divorced. So, I'm certain that number was wrong.

Would it be wise to possibly stir up alot of anger and have an order for support drawn up? Or trust that he'll always do as he says? Considering that if always did as promised I might still be married to him, I think the answer is obvious. Just wanting second opinions, I guess. And, do they automatically base it on our incomes. Or can we decide on the amount and have it written up like that?

 

[haiku]

the question you want to ask is...Is everybody happy? do you want to rock the boat over what may or may not be more money?

Do not compare your marriage breakup to his responsibility to his kid.

If you go for money, he can then go for legal custody and visitation, which means you will also be bound by a court order and no longer get to decide much when it comes to your time with your child.

Will it be worth hurting what seems to be from your post a good relationship?


Also remember just as you thought he would marry you forever, almost all the posts on these boards are from women with COURT ORDERS, who never see a dime, you DON'T have a court order.

the court order is no gaurantee, just as your marriage license was no gaurantee.

 

[LdiJ]

the question you want to ask is...Is everybody happy? do you want to rock the boat over what may or may not be more money?

Do not compare your marriage breakup to his responsibility to his kid.

If you go for money, he can then go for legal custody and visitation, which means you will also be bound by a court order and no longer get to decide much when it comes to your time with your child.

Will it be worth hurting what seems to be from your post a good relationship?


Also remember just as you thought he would marry you forever, almost all the posts on these boards are from women with COURT ORDERS, who never see a dime, you DON'T have a court order.

the court order is no gaurantee, just as your marriage license was no gaurantee.

Its true that a court order is no guarantee....but its also true that if the ncp doesn't pay according to the court order that arrearages rack up that never go away.

However its also true that the ncp can go for a different visitation/custody arrangement as well....and often will if the CP attempts to formalize child support.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

If you have to ask, you have your answer.

 

[lisars]

We do not have a good relationship by any stretch. We can barely stand to be in the same room with each other. The kids are well aware of this, and I don't want to make this any tougher on them than it already is.

 

[lisars]

This is not about the money. What part of "Can we just input the amount he pays now into an order" did you miss? This is about, as I stated in a previous post, covering my ass. If I was wrong about him in one instance, I could be wrong in others, is all I'm trying to say. I moved on years ago.

He pays the amount in full most months, asking for an extension every now and then. Has stated in the past he shouldn't have to pay me anything because my husband makes so much. My husband provides all medical/dental coverage. Ex provides none. Ex does however provide excuses as to why the vacations they've planned had to be cancelled, why weekends get cancelled when it rains(don't ask...)why he forgets their birthdays, why he didn't have time to stop and see them as promised when they're sick and he's at the house down the street. But I'm sure that's not what you meant. I know you may be tired of marriage references but this one is a response to your statement about being there for the children as when we were married. That's precisely the point, he wasn't there then, just as he isn't now. Too busy living the single guy life with a wife and two kids at home waiting. So I gave him that freedom and trust me we're ALL much better off. I was a single mother WHILE we were married.And I no longer have to answer ?s about why Daddy isn't home yet.

He would never file for a different custody arrangement, he doesn't take them as often as he's supposed to now, he doesn't want them more. He currently is supposed to have the girls EOW, every other holiday, Wed. nights and 6 weeks every summer. He uses one weekend, no Wed. in the last 5 years, and rarely more than a week and a half in the summer. We live less than ten minutes apart and he sees them far less than when we lived two hours away, go figure.The flexibility that I allow is to noone's benefit but his. The cancelled weekends, vacations, etc... allow him to be an only when it's convenient for him kind of Dad. They're actually pleased now when he calls to cancel, that's the sad part. I have my reasons for disliking him, but he's their Dad and they shouldn't feel that way.

No, I do not want to create chaos. That's why I'm soliciting advice and not running to file for support. (Why do I feel like I'm explaining to my 3 year old why it's not good to stick his head in the toilet?) And did not file when advised to do so by an attorney, instead choosing to go along with ex's request to keep it out of court.

I am fully aware that I have it pretty good compared to most here. All I'm asking is it in my best interest to have court ordered support(visitation also and yes, I AM also fully aware the two are completely separate issues). Thanks for your input, I guess I did answer my own question after all.

 

[Randall Somer]

What's best for the children

What's best for the children, a good working relationships between their parents, or a court order relationship between parents? You may be able to get more money, but will you get less of a father. As a single parent of 12 years, having the absent parent involved was more important to me than the money. I might add both were rare events in my case. You have received more money in one month than I received for two children in 12 years. Nonetheless, the stats for children of broken homes are scary and children need both parents...

 

[chatkat]

lisars

Please clear somthing up for me..
You state you are divorced and that you are now remarried. How is it then that you made it through the divorce with two children and no CS order in the first place???? I would think if you got a divorce through the courts that you would already have a CS order in the papers and would be following that order.

As to your question, if you and your ex have agreed to a different amount outside of an order and he decides not to pay that amount anymore, you are SOL. MAKE IT COURT ORDERED!!

You suggest that you already don't have a good relationship with the ex and he already doesn't participate in the kids lives. He is already ticked off and doesn't see his children, so what is he going to do if you file? Get ticked off and stop seeing the kids??

 

[lisars]

In our case the parents do not have a good working relationship. He sees them when he wants and expects me to drop all plans to fit his schedule. A court order for visitation would have him being in their lives more than he is now. He'd be too afraid to defy it. And with a support order I would receive at minimum $300 more per month than he now pays. Unless you are allowed to determine an amount on your own that we've both agreed on. I'm not trying to bankrupt the man. I just want to make sure that if, for unfathomable reason, he decides down the road that he doesn't want to pay I have a way to insure that he can't get away with like every other man on his side of the family.

The attorney that I consulted last summer reviewed our divorce agreement and stated that we did not technically have any order for support or custody/visitation since there were no case numbers referenced. He said that I do not have allow him visitation nor does he have to pay support without them. We just came up with our own agreement with the stipulation that it was a six month trial basis and if we still couldn't make it work we'd file for official orders. We divorced using only one attorney(his) and we didn't know any better that there was to be something more to it than what he did. Considering that this guy he used "forgot" to file our papers for over six months, I guess we should have looked into any further errors.

He's the type that if I do file, he'll go on and on to the kids about how he can't afford this or that for them because he has to pay Mommy too much money. He's already done that a few times. Even to the point he had the oldest wanting to see his check when it came to see how much was "too much". We spend more than this amount for groceries in one week. I don't care how ticked off at me he gets, I just don't want the kids bearing the load of guilt he'll lay on them. It's not their fault I chose poorly 15 years ago.

 

[chatkat]

Maybe one of the lawyers can explain how is it possible that a judge would grant a divorce with children involved and not order visitation and CS in that decree.

Are you sure you have an original copy of the decree? Are you sure your actually divorced?

 

[haiku]

In our case the parents do not have a good working relationship. He sees them when he wants and expects me to drop all plans to fit his schedule. A court order for visitation would have him being in their lives more than he is now. He'd be too afraid to defy it.

The only one who can "defy' a visitation order is the CP.Visitation is not something you can be in contempt for if you DON'T use it. But the custodial can be in contempt if they do not allow court ordered visits. All a court order for visitation does is insure an NCP gets visitation rights at specific times and intervals. A non custodial parent never has to utilize them.***

And with a support order I would receive at minimum $300 more per month than he now pays.
***As evidenced on this board a court order never stops a deadbeat from NOT paying, your guy may complain, but he is paying without one NOW. ANd remeber that once you get into court and he presebnts his actual financials against YOURS the amount could end up being a bit different.***

Unless you are allowed to determine an amount on your own that we've both agreed on. I'm not trying to bankrupt the man.

***in some cases yes, as long as it is reasonable and the parties agree a judge may sign off on an amount that deviates from the state guidelines****

I just want to make sure that if, for unfathomable reason, he decides down the road that he doesn't want to pay I have a way to insure that he can't get away with like every other man on his side of the family.

***A true deadbeat WILL get around a court order anyway, and still have a happy life****

The attorney that I consulted last summer reviewed our divorce agreement and stated that we did not technically have any order for support or custody/visitation since there were no case numbers referenced. He said that I do not have allow him visitation nor does he have to pay support without them. We just came up with our own agreement with the stipulation that it was a six month trial basis and if we still couldn't make it work we'd file for official orders. We divorced using only one attorney(his) and we didn't know any better that there was to be something more to it than what he did. Considering that this guy he used "forgot" to file our papers for over six months, I guess we should have looked into any further errors.

He's the type that if I do file, he'll go on and on to the kids about how he can't afford this or that for them because he has to pay Mommy too much money. He's already done that a few times. Even to the point he had the oldest wanting to see his check when it came to see how much was "too much". We spend more than this amount for groceries in one week.

***possibly you pay too much for groceries...LOL....****
I don't care how ticked off at me he gets, I just don't want the kids bearing the load of guilt he'll lay on them. It's not their fault I chose poorly 15 years ago.

i am not giving you advice NOT to file, personally, my philosophy is, if it ain't broke don't fix it. My only point is, don't go into this, thinking a court order is a 'magic pill" giving you garanteed money, if he pays now, he likely will continue to pay with or without the order.

 

[lisars]

Yes, I have an original copy of the decree. And am also positive I am really divorced. If I weren't, when my husband and I applied for our marriage license they would have caught any error in that department. That's why they have you take any previous divorce decrees when applying for a marriage license, to prove you aren't trying to commit bigamy.

And a big yes to the fact that I spend too much on groceries. Damn Post Cereal for putting those Teen Titans on so many different cereal boxes.

 

[chatkat]

I don't know the law in PA, but I know that my ex and I agreed on an amount and that is what is stated in our decree.

So yes, if the two of you say you agree to 200.00 a month and you have the CS orders state that, the judge would probably sign them. As a matter of fact, if the judge previously signed papers that didn't even state support at all, then I'm sure they would sign any amount that the two of you agree on with no problem. Should it be in the Court Order? YES! Having a court order is not a guarantee that you will get CS, but without an order, if he stops paying you have no recourse. With an order, even if it takes 20 years, his obligation will not go away until paid.

Lets say 5 years from now he decideds to stop paying. You go to a lawyer and say I want to take him to court for non payment of CS. The lawyer is going to say there is no contempt, because there is no order. Then you say well I want to get an order. The judge is going to say why did you want 5 + years to ask for childsupport?
I see post all the time about women wanting to know if they can take men back to court for child support 5, 10, or 15 years after the fact and most of them are told it is too late.
Don't risk being in that situation.

 

[haiku]

I see post all the time about women wanting to know if they can take men back to court for child support 5, 10, or 15 years after the fact and most of them are told it is too late.
Don't risk being in that situation.

Until a child is 18 or 21 or whatever the state says, a custodial parent can file for support of that child.

What you are thinking of (I think...) is after a certain age the CP can only get child support back from the date of FILING. (unless it was a case of public assistance, finally finding a missing parent after many years, then the NCP would be on the hook to the STATE to repay years benefits paid for the child)

 

[chatkat]

Well I have already admitted I'm not a lawyer, but I have learned from experience that agreements don't hold over the long term.
My ex and I have had lots of agreements over the years and when his wife decided she didn't like the agreement, it bacame null and void.
When a man says I promised my ex... to a new wife or g/f then he is saying I take her side over yours, and that will cause more problems then any man is willing to take on. There for your agreement gets thrown out with that old family picture he has been hanging on too.
When a man says I am court order.. to the new wife or g/f then he is saying I didn't necessarily agree to it, but they are making me do that. The g/f or wife then feels sorry for him and comes to this site to see how she can make the courts see the light about how bad her man got screwed.
Tell him you are doing it to protect him from having to tick off a future wife..LOL