What Indiana Child Support Guidelines were used in 1997?

[KLDAD]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
My divorce was completed in 1997 and my youngest child will be 19 next month(filing for emancipation). My ex, our attorneys and I are "struggling" to resolve a question regarding CS. Actually, my ex and I were in agreement until my attorney opened a can of worms by blurting out, "You were/are not allowed to claim 50% abatement of CS for any of the extended visitation periods you had the children(2)." Up to that point my ex and I had always agreed, and, ironically, been directed by both our attorneys back in '97-'98, to handle visitation credit in that manner, ie:whenever I had the children for at least 2 weeks we would agree to reduce the CS. Her most recent attorney said we should count the number of weeks(in full, overnights) that I had the children with me and multiply that by 1/2 of the weekly CS to calculate the correct deduction. Of course once my attorney made his statement, her attorney went silent.

How do I get copies of the paperwork used in 1997 to calculate my CS obligation? The only information I am able to find online regarding this issue(now referred to as Parenting Time Credit) is a brief paragraph on the State of Indiana web site. I include it here:

The Guideline support schedules do not reflect the fact, however, when both parents exercise parenting time, out-of-pocket expenses will be incurred for the child(ren)�s care. These expenses were recognized previously by the application of a 10% visitation credit and a 50% abatement of child support during periods of extended visitation. The visitation credit was based on the regular exercise of alternate weekend visitation which is equivalent to approximately 14% of the annual overnights. With the adoption of the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines, the noncustodial parent�s share of parenting time, if exercised, is equivalent to approximately 27% of the annual overnights. As a result, these revisions provide a parenting credit based upon the number of overnights with the noncustodial parent ranging from 52 overnights annually to equal parenting time. As parenting time increases, a proportionally larger increase in the credit will occur.

As I recall, there was never any discussion of "overnights", which is a integral part of the current methodology for calculating Parenting Time Credit currently utilized in Indiana. From what I have read it appears that Indiana revised CS calculations in 2000, so other than the above paragraph I have nothing to reference with regard to my situation.

Any and all feedback would be most appreciated. Thanks.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
My divorce was completed in 1997 and my youngest child will be 19 next month(filing for emancipation). My ex, our attorneys and I are "struggling" to resolve a question regarding CS. Actually, my ex and I were in agreement until my attorney opened a can of worms by blurting out, "You were/are not allowed to claim 50% abatement of CS for any of the extended visitation periods you had the children(2)." Up to that point my ex and I had always agreed, and, ironically, been directed by both our attorneys back in '97-'98, to handle visitation credit in that manner, ie:whenever I had the children for at least 2 weeks we would agree to reduce the CS. Her most recent attorney said we should count the number of weeks(in full, overnights) that I had the children with me and multiply that by 1/2 of the weekly CS to calculate the correct deduction. Of course once my attorney made his statement, her attorney went silent.

How do I get copies of the paperwork used in 1997 to calculate my CS obligation? The only information I am able to find online regarding this issue(now referred to as Parenting Time Credit) is a brief paragraph on the State of Indiana web site. I include it here:

The Guideline support schedules do not reflect the fact, however, when both parents exercise parenting time, out-of-pocket expenses will be incurred for the child(ren)�s care. These expenses were recognized previously by the application of a 10% visitation credit and a 50% abatement of child support during periods of extended visitation. The visitation credit was based on the regular exercise of alternate weekend visitation which is equivalent to approximately 14% of the annual overnights. With the adoption of the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines, the noncustodial parent�s share of parenting time, if exercised, is equivalent to approximately 27% of the annual overnights. As a result, these revisions provide a parenting credit based upon the number of overnights with the noncustodial parent ranging from 52 overnights annually to equal parenting time. As parenting time increases, a proportionally larger increase in the credit will occur.

As I recall, there was never any discussion of "overnights", which is a integral part of the current methodology for calculating Parenting Time Credit currently utilized in Indiana. From what I have read it appears that Indiana revised CS calculations in 2000, so other than the above paragraph I have nothing to reference with regard to my situation.

Any and all feedback would be most appreciated. Thanks.

Was your child support ever modified (increased or decreased) during that 17 year period? If so, if any of those re-calculations took place after 2000 you would have been subject to the current rules, rather than the rules that were in place when your divorce was initially finalized. The re-calculations would have been under the current guidelines.

If no modification ever happened, and your income increased during that 17 year period, then you dodged a very serious bullet. At this point, I think it would be better if you and your ex simply agreed to go with your original agreement and not open up that can of worms.

 

[KLDAD]

Was your child support ever modified (increased or decreased) during that 17 year period? If so, if any of those re-calculations took place after 2000 you would have been subject to the current rules, rather than the rules that were in place when your divorce was initially finalized. The re-calculations would have been under the current guidelines.

If no modification ever happened, and your income increased during that 17 year period, then you dodged a very serious bullet. At this point, I think it would be better if you and your ex simply agreed to go with your original agreement and not open up that can of worms.

Thank you for your response.

With regard to your question about modification, there has never been any change. But that touches on part of the reason I am curious about obtaining any "official" paperwork that may exist. Is there a file or microfiche in some warehouse that courts can pull records from? For the life of me I am unable to figure out how I ended up paying $280 per week for two children. I am responsible(court ordered) for all uninsured health bills(after the application of the "6% rule"), all medical deductibles, and all medical insurance(premiums). She was unemployed at the time of our divorce, and there was child care cost, both factors which obviously tilts the tables, but my income was not huge at $40,000. I agreed to Spousal support over the first three years. naive on my part and a poor attorney. When I put the same numbers into todays CS calculators I don't get anything close to what I am sending my ex. I am aware that it is too late to do anything about it but it does make me very curious and in particular the issue of CS credit for extended visitation, or even if there was ever any credit included in the calculation for the visitation spelled out in the divorce agreement.

I should clarify my earlier post. I wrote that we are "struggling", my ex and I and our attorneys, but in fact it is quite contentious. Once my ex heard those words from my attorney she latched on and now has the position that I am in arrears for all the deductions which she and I had agreed to over the years. These total over $10,000. Since that "my-attorney-just-stabbed-me-in-the-back moment" I have obtained new representation. He informed me that at the hearing to emancipate we will, using a comprehensive list of all of the extended visitation, appeal to the judge to acknowledge/award an appropriate credit toward the "outstanding" CS. He implied that it would be looked at in terms of percentages, ie:10%, 20%, of the annual CS total. He was rather calm about it which suggested to me that he was confident that the judge would be agreeable. It would be wonderful if I could get my ex to reverse her position, though I am concerned that as it involves CS, the court will not care what arrangement we had no matter what she or I state in court.

Would really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on the above.

Thanks.

 

[Zigner]

You're not going to get it changed retroactively (if that's what you're asking.)

 

[LdiJ]

You're not going to get it changed retroactively (if that's what you're asking.)

I think that he is more worried about arrears because of the "abatements" that he was taking after 2000.

OP I can tell you that there was a fairly big "push" after the law changed to recalculate child support orders under the new guidelines. However, if you have been paying mom directly, rather than through the child support agency, you should be able to make the argument that your child support orders never changed...assuming that your orders outlined the abatement.

I am a little uneasy about how your new attorney is explaining things to you, because what he is explaining isn't really the way that it works, but he may be trying to put things in more simplistic terms. If you want to read in detail how things really work under today's calculations, read the information here:

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/rules/child_support/

If you want to see exactly how things were calculated back then, then get a full copy of your file from the courthouse. It should contain a copy of the child support worksheet that was used to make the original calculation.

 

[KLDAD]

You're not going to get it changed retroactively (if that's what you're asking.)

Thanks, but no, that was not what I was asking. I missed my opportunity to make meaningful changes a long time ago. My interest is in whether any sort of "credit" for visitation was ever applied at the time of the CS calculation/divorce, and how that may or may not impact the opinion of the judge when my ex and I are standing in the front of the courtroom. My attorney implied that presenting the dates of the extended visitations over the years would entitle the judge to reduce or eliminate what my ex will most likely present as CS arrearage. Part of me thinks that if I was never given any credit for visitation in the original CS calculation it would make it more likely that the judge would agree that the system my ex and I utilized over the years was acceptable and adhered to the States prescribed method for addressing extended visitation credit for the NCP. We followed the legal advice of both our attorneys and representatives of the Child Support Office in South Bend. And surprisingly, not just in the early years, but even 12 years on we were advised that what we were doing was correct by those same individuals as well as several new-to-the-case attorneys(my ex has gone through a few).

The original judge has since retired, and I doubt that very many of those who were around in 1997 are even still at the courthouse. It seems that most of the individuals involved in these sort of issues, when discussed today, are only familiar with the Child Support Guidelines as we know them today, which, if I am not mistaken, arrived in its earliest versions around 1998.

Thanks again.

 

[Zigner]

Thanks, but no, that was not what I was asking. I missed my opportunity to make meaningful changes a long time ago. My interest is in whether any sort of "credit" for visitation was ever applied at the time of the CS calculation/divorce, and how that may or may not impact the opinion of the judge when my ex and I are standing in the front of the courtroom. My attorney implied that presenting the dates of the extended visitations over the years would entitle the judge to reduce or eliminate what my ex will most likely present as CS arrearage. Part of me thinks that if I was never given any credit for visitation in the original CS calculation it would make it more likely that the judge would agree that the system my ex and I utilized over the years was acceptable and adhered to the States prescribed method for addressing extended visitation credit for the NCP. We followed the legal advice of both our attorneys and representatives of the Child Support Office in South Bend. And surprisingly, not just in the early years, but even 12 years on we were advised that what we were doing was correct by those same individuals as well as several new-to-the-case attorneys(my ex has gone through a few).

The original judge has since retired, and I doubt that very many of those who were around in 1997 are even still at the courthouse. It seems that most of the individuals involved in these sort of issues, when discussed today, are only familiar with the Child Support Guidelines as we know them today, which, if I am not mistaken, arrived in its earliest versions around 1998.

Thanks again.

Actually, you are asking it to be changed retroactively.

 

[LdiJ]

Actually, you are asking it to be changed retroactively.

I am seeing this more as an argument against mom asking for the orders to be changed retroactively. Mom is basically arguing that due to the change in the law the abatements no longer applied after 2000...and therefore dad has arrears (even though CS was never recalculated/modified under the new guidelines). Dad's argument should be that child support was never recalculated under the current guidelines and therefore he should not have any arrears...his original orders were still valid. If it turns out that had the child support been recalculated dad would have actually paid LESS over the last 14 years or so, it might help convince a judge of his position.

There were two main reasons for the change in the guidelines. 1) The abatement system was unwieldy to enforce accurately, particularly when child support was paid via wage garnishment, and 2) a push was on to more accurately credit parents with the costs of providing for the needs of children during parenting time. There was never an intent that a parent would lose the abatement without getting the new parenting time credits. The change in the guidelines also did not nullify previous orders.

 

[KLDAD]

Actually, you are asking it to be changed retroactively.

Zinger, I understand why you hold that opinion. And it points out my difficulty. At the time of my divorce, the Indiana Child Support Guidelines, as we know them today, were not yet in effect. Current guidelines require calculation and/or application of a predetermined number of "overnights" to be included in the process of calculating CS and any anticipated credit to be applied to reflect an accurate Parenting Time Credit.
From the new Guidelines, "...these revisions provide a parenting credit based upon the number of overnights with the noncustodial parent ranging from 52 overnights annually to equal parenting time."

And, "These expenses were recognized previously by the application of a 10% visitation credit and a 50% abatement of child support during periods of extended visitation."

With the new Guidelines, the method of applying extended visitation credit changed, in that rather than crediting after qualifying visitation had taken place, the new Guidelines allowed for an estimate of the expected visitation to be part of the process for determining CS.

My interaction over the years with individuals who are either attorneys or state employees in the County Court House has shown that it is an issue which causes a great deal of confusion. I believe that part of the problem is that many are so accustomed to the Indiana Child Support Guidelines as we know them today, with little change since its inception some 15 years ago, that any discussion reveals a frustrating lack of either experience or interest in what preceded it.

My contention is that my ex and I have been applying the 50% abatement as allowed by the Guidelines in effect at the time of our divorce, following the advice of those who were trained in the profession.

 

[KLDAD]

I am seeing this more as an argument against mom asking for the orders to be changed retroactively. Mom is basically arguing that due to the change in the law the abatements no longer applied after 2000...and therefore dad has arrears (even though CS was never recalculated/modified under the new guidelines). Dad's argument should be that child support was never recalculated under the current guidelines and therefore he should not have any arrears...his original orders were still valid. If it turns out that had the child support been recalculated dad would have actually paid LESS over the last 14 years or so, it might help convince a judge of his position.

There were two main reasons for the change in the guidelines. 1) The abatement system was unwieldy to enforce accurately, particularly when child support was paid via wage garnishment, and 2) a push was on to more accurately credit parents with the costs of providing for the needs of children during parenting time. There was never an intent that a parent would lose the abatement without getting the new parenting time credits. The change in the guidelines also did not nullify previous orders.

LdiJ, I agree with your assessment, and not simply because it supports my opinion.
There was never any change to our original divorce decree, which was an order by the court, constructed and enforced by the court. If either myself or my ex-wife had ever attempted a change, the court would be highly resistant, and require an appearance in front of a judge expecting very compelling evidence to even consider a modification. The notion that the terms of the divorce decree could change without our knowledge and without notification of any sort runs contrary to what would be expected of us.
Now, that said, we were basing our CS credit on three things: the advice our attorneys(several, over several years), guidance from the Child Support office at the Court House, and the application of CS credit as outlined in the Child Support Guidelines in effect at the time of our divorce. There is nothing in the Divorce Agreement that refers to credit for visitation.
I must add that at no point when consulting with any of the attorneys or County Clerks were we asked to produce or refer to our Divorce papers. Their advice and direction was made without reference to the terms of our divorce other than the details identifying ourselves as CP and NCP, and the weekly support amount. To me this implies and supports my interpretation of the Guidelines as being applicable to our situation without requiring specific language in our divorce agreement.
I hope you could offer an opinion on the above.
Thank you.

 

[Zigner]

LdiJ, I agree with your assessment, and not simply because it supports my opinion.
There was never any change to our original divorce decree, which was an order by the court, constructed and enforced by the court. If either myself or my ex-wife had ever attempted a change, the court would be highly resistant, and require an appearance in front of a judge expecting very compelling evidence to even consider a modification. The notion that the terms of the divorce decree could change without our knowledge and without notification of any sort runs contrary to what would be expected of us.
Now, that said, we were basing our CS credit on three things: the advice our attorneys(several, over several years), guidance from the Child Support office at the Court House, and the application of CS credit as outlined in the Child Support Guidelines in effect at the time of our divorce. There is nothing in the Divorce Agreement that refers to credit for visitation.
I must add that at no point when consulting with any of the attorneys or County Clerks were we asked to produce or refer to our Divorce papers. Their advice and direction was made without reference to the terms of our divorce other than the details identifying ourselves as CP and NCP, and the weekly support amount. To me this implies and supports my interpretation of the Guidelines as being applicable to our situation without requiring specific language in our divorce agreement.
I hope you could offer an opinion on the above.
Thank you.

My view:

If your court order is still in effect, you follow the court order. If you and your ex-spouse agree that a credit is in order, the court isn't going to argue and will allow the recipient to forgive a portion of the arrears. This is not an adjustment, rather, it's a forgiveness. I think that your problem is that your ex doesn't agree.

 

[LdiJ]

LdiJ, I agree with your assessment, and not simply because it supports my opinion.
There was never any change to our original divorce decree, which was an order by the court, constructed and enforced by the court. If either myself or my ex-wife had ever attempted a change, the court would be highly resistant, and require an appearance in front of a judge expecting very compelling evidence to even consider a modification. The notion that the terms of the divorce decree could change without our knowledge and without notification of any sort runs contrary to what would be expected of us.
Now, that said, we were basing our CS credit on three things: the advice our attorneys(several, over several years), guidance from the Child Support office at the Court House, and the application of CS credit as outlined in the Child Support Guidelines in effect at the time of our divorce. There is nothing in the Divorce Agreement that refers to credit for visitation.
I must add that at no point when consulting with any of the attorneys or County Clerks were we asked to produce or refer to our Divorce papers. Their advice and direction was made without reference to the terms of our divorce other than the details identifying ourselves as CP and NCP, and the weekly support amount. To me this implies and supports my interpretation of the Guidelines as being applicable to our situation without requiring specific language in our divorce agreement.
I hope you could offer an opinion on the above.
Thank you.

The bolded above is actually incorrect. Child support has always been fluid and modifiable because the incomes of parents change and because laws/guidelines change. Therefore, had either one of you asked for a modification, the court would have (without any resistance at all) recalculated the child support based on factors that were current at the time of the request for modification.

Child custody on the other hand, requires more rigid changes, particularly a significant change in the circumstances of the child. Perhaps you are confusing child support modifications with custody modifications.

 

[single317dad]

You'd probably have to dig up an old law book from the library. IN.gov didn't even exist in 1997.

State law library:

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/supreme/2329.htm

Your local library may also have legal resources. They may or may not have what you're looking for.

 

[LdiJ]

You'd probably have to dig up an old law book from the library. IN.gov didn't even exist in 1997.

State law library:

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/supreme/2329.htm

Your local library may also have legal resources. They may or may not have what you're looking for.

Indiana Child Support Guidelines absolutely were published before 1997. There were all kinds of different websites, published by different government offices all over the web before in.gov got formed. They just didn't all get tied together until in.gov got formed.

 

[KLDAD]

My view:

If your court order is still in effect, you follow the court order. If you and your ex-spouse agree that a credit is in order, the court isn't going to argue and will allow the recipient to forgive a portion of the arrears. This is not an adjustment, rather, it's a forgiveness. I think that your problem is that your ex doesn't agree.

Thanks. You have probably nailed it, ie:the ex doesn't agree. Not the first time I have faced that dilemma.
Because of other circumstances between her and I, it would be possible to handle this without the court having to be aware of any discussions pertaining to CS. And that may be very important according to some other opinions I have received on various forums. A few have commented that because CS is seen as money for the children, neither my ex, or I, are in a position to "negotiate away" the children's support/money. Of course the intention of the "credit", as with all credits or abatements, is to reduce the support obligation of the NCP over the applicable visitation period in order that he is able to provide for the children properly. So, in effect, whether the money is with the CP and the kids are with her, or the money is with the NCP and the kids are with him, the money doesn't just disappear. The State has decided what the appropriate amount of abatement should be, and when it should be applied so we are are not merely fiddling around making up our own rules to the detriment of the children's welfare.
Thank you for your comments. Truly appreciated.