• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Whats the point of an order if the court won't enforce?

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

PapaPop

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

Ok, the long story.

I am dad. Mom dropped the children off on my doorstep in 1998 and signed over custody to me. She was ordered in 1998 to pay $340/month in child support. She was given a standard visitation schedule, etc.

Long story short, she never paid support. I never withheld the girls from her and she was able to always exercise her visitation. In 2000, she remarried and began having more children. Any time I asked for support or help I got the "Blood from a turnip" line and hung up on.

Fast forward. 2005, she decides she is going to try to file for custody. We go to court and the court sees that she is 22K in arrearages. She is questioned and says she cannot pay because she is unemployed. When asked further, its revealed she is unemployed by choice, as she and her husband decided that it would be cheaper for her to be a stay-at-home mom of their 3 children. So, judge upholds order of $340/month. In addition, she places mother of our girls under arrest. She is given probation, had to pay 5K bond to get out of jail. She is now also ordered $200/month arrearages on top of her regular order.

The terms of her probation state that if she falls 45 days behind, she is to serve the remainder of her 180 day sentence.

She has fallen multiple months behind on numerous occasions since then. The only guaranteed money is when they take her tax refund. When she was almost 2 years behind, the Texas AG FINALLY had a warrant issued for her arrest (never mind the whole 45 day probation thing). She was put in jail and had to pay 10K bond to be released.

We go back to court, presumably in regards to the probation violation. Instead, it turns into a hearing for modification. She is now working a part-time job and her lawyer states that she has been ordered to pay too much for her income (mind you-- her support was based on her wages in 1998--- 9 bucks an hour). I argue that she is on probation for non-support and in the 2005 case it was determined that her voluntary underemployment was not considered. The judge looks at the case and says "in terms of non-payment, I've seen worse".. and LOWERS her support order. To $214/month.

The order was to be temporary since she had just started the job. We go back to court in December. She has started working less hours in anticipation of the court date (I know, because the checks I'm getting that they are taking out of her wages are getting smaller and smaller). Not only has she NOT met the $214 ONCE in the 6 months since the last court date, she has not paid ANY of the arrearages.

The final kick in the head? Her lawyer is petitioning for her probation to be dropped (it was set for 10 years) on the grounds that with the 10K bond she posted, her arrears are currently under 5K.

So the question is-- what is the point of an order if it isn't enforced? If the gender was switched, I can guarantee she'd be in jail over this. Why such a gender bias in court?
 


ecmst12

Senior Member
Read other posts. Men who don't pay are treated similarly. Your order IS being enforced and you are getting payments from her tax refund, from bonds when she's been arrested, and from her wages being garnished. You may not be getting everything you should be getting, but some people are just bound and determined to do whatever it takes to not pay. The system is doing everything it can to collect.
 

PapaPop

Junior Member
The more appropriate statement I suppose is

If she is on PROBATION and is in violation of the terms of probation, then why isn't she in jail?? Cut and dry. She doesn't want to pay? Fine. But she should have to face the penalty for her actions. Not only is she not having to face the music, she is essentially being rewarded (by gaining a reduction) for gaming the system.
 

PapaPop

Junior Member
But see, the whole job thing is a ruse. She hasn't worked in 10 years. She goes to jail in March, gets the job in May knowing she would be in court in June. She WILL quit as soon as the order is handed down in December.
 

PapaPop

Junior Member
Oh, I suppose I should explain why I feel a gender bias.

When we went to court the time between the probation order and this last time (she was ordered to court for... non payment. The fact she was on probation meant nothing).

We went before the judge and the judge apparently didn't look at the paperwork. He looks at me and says, Mr. _______ why aren't you paying your support (in a rude tone). I informed him that I was, in fact, the custodial parent and that the mother was the one in court for non-support. His voice turned Mr. Grandfather as he asks her why wasn't she paying her support, bless her little pea-pickin heart.

THAT is where my notion of "gender bias" comes from. That, and the fact that on the most recent court date there were 3 other non-supporters, all men. All had their probation revoked. But not her.
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
She was "rewarded" for getting a job. As long as she refused to work, her amount wasn't changed. When she got a job, they reduced it in line with her current wages. And she is working (though I did see not as much as YOU would like) and you are getting some payment (though again, still not as much as she SHOULD be paying). It's more then some people around here are getting. There is a dad around here whose ex owes him SIX FIGURES in arrears that he will probably never get (though if he does, he'd better take us all out to dinner!), some parents just don't want to follow their orders. She's willing to risk going back to jail, one of these days she's going to lose the gamble.
 

PapaPop

Junior Member
In terms of what "I" would like her to work... do you find it unreasonable that I would expect her to at least be ordered to pay based on what full time wages would be, seeing as she chooses to only work 15-20 hours per week? (Her employer does offer full time, she chose to work part time). It would be another story if she were trying, but she isn't. She was ordered $360/month for 2 children, 13 years ago. I've never sought to have it changed or increased nor have I ever demanded she pay the 50% of medical expenses she is ordered to pay and I have been providing them healthcare coverage despite her being ordered to keep them covered.
 

PapaPop

Junior Member
I've been paying the bill for 13 years. At this point, I'd welcome seeing her in jail as opposed to receiving support. I've done fine without it all this time. Fortunately I have a significant other who helps tremendously.

I guess the point is, why put a person on probation if there is really no intention of enforcing the probation. That is where my frustration stems from. If a person on probation for drugs fails a drug test, they go back to jail. Stands to reason if a person is on probation for felony non support, and violates the support order (and terms of probation), should they not also face the remainder of their sentence?
 

Isis1

Senior Member
You are the one who deemed her marriage material and fathered kids with her. Now you are getting the bill.
OP, pay no mind to this answer.

first off, if she is in jail, you won't get a dime for the duration. so it only suits your revenge. yes, i know. it will feel good for a minute. but in the long run, it's not worth it. and yes, there are TONS of cases worse then you that the agency is working to come down on.

right now, just relax. it's working it's way to be right.
 

CourtClerk

Senior Member
How much do you think it's going to cost to jail her over $200/mo?

Are you willing to pay for the cost of her incarceration?

The system isn't fair. Get over it. Lots of us have, even us female single parents.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
I've been paying the bill for 13 years. At this point, I'd welcome seeing her in jail as opposed to receiving support. I've done fine without it all this time. Fortunately I have a significant other who helps tremendously.

I guess the point is, why put a person on probation if there is really no intention of enforcing the probation. That is where my frustration stems from. If a person on probation for drugs fails a drug test, they go back to jail. Stands to reason if a person is on probation for felony non support, and violates the support order (and terms of probation), should they not also face the remainder of their sentence?
This happens many times on the other side of the coin. Usually it is men putting the screws to woman. Congrats, it sounds like you found a keeper second time around.:) Be patient and you will likely get it via her federal taxes.
 

PapaPop

Junior Member
Yes, I'm sure the other 3 didn't make a lump sum payment, but to me it makes it even worse that she cannot pay her support, yet coming up with 10K in 5 days is easy-peasy (she got the money from her mom--the same genius that convinced her to go back for custody in 2005, which started her woes).

Clerk-- I respect what you are saying, but perhaps so many people "getting over it and accepting it" is part of the problem. If the penalty for not paying support and being a Felon was more severe--- it would deter more people. But it doesn't take long for a deadbeat parent to realize the system won't do much about it as long as they throw a $20 payment in from time to time. I shouldn't be responsible for the costs of her incarceration, she should be. After all, HER choices are the ones that would put her in that position. If she chose to be a responsible parent and pay her obligations, there would not even be grounds. The only reason I would like to see her in jail at this point is the simple fact that after 13 years of trying to be reasonable, it has grown old. To be honest, I think any parent who makes the decision to not support their child should face the same consequence.

Yes, there are tons of deadbeats out there. And there are also tons of dedicated parents who meet their obligations every month.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top