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Work the system, and you too can collect free money!!!

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roco23

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? WA

My daughter turned 18 this month, her dad has never paid child support. He works under the table as a welder in WA State. He also claims public assistance and was receiving it until Feb 2006; now he is receiving food stamps. It is my understanding that his wife was able to get them assistance, but they have no children living at home. My daughter will graduate from H.S. in June and continue on with college. I have been told that his obligation is void because she is 18 (not that he owned up to any obligation in the past). Of course, now he has decided to start calling my daughter and regularly; I am sure it is because he thinks he is home free now.... he made it 18 years evading and working the system! Thank goodness my daughter can see right through him; however it doesn't change the fact that he is trying to now embed himself in her life. How can someone like this work the system? I feel like my only retaliation is to finally expose the fraud and con-man he is. Is it slander or defamation of character if I publish and essay exposing this deadbeat? Is there anything I can do to get him to pay and help with college?
 


weenor

Senior Member
Yeah file for the back child support he should have paid you...he will have the burden of showing that he paid (i.e. cancelled checks or receipts). Do it now though because it will probably take a while to collect
 

roco23

Junior Member
Hello! Thank you both very much for responding!
Yes, there is a court order- not that that seems to matter much. The state is going after him for back child support, however they can never collect from him, as he works under the table. They have actually stated this to me. I did hire an attorney a few years back to put some pressure on him, if he didn't pay, they would put him in jail; this worked for a few months and I would get a check for $100/mo.; ended up paying $1,000's in attorney fee's though. So the principal of making a dead beat Dad pay or face jail took more time and money away from my daughter and our livelihood. Support Enforcment of WA State said that I don't need to hire an attorney at this point, as they would be doing the same thing as them, and they're doing it for free. Problem is, they are the same system that is giving this guy assistance! It is all so backwards.

I have to believe there is SOMETHING I can do; seems every corner I turn though things fall in his favor; it has been 18 years! Anyway, that is why I thought if I can at least raise awareness and bring attention to him maybe that will put pressure on him????
 

ceara19

Senior Member
Don't count on the state actually doing much at this point. Once a child support obligation ends, the state normally stops any REAL effort to collect the arrears.
 
N

nicetryadmin

Guest
roco23 said:
What is the name of your state? WA

My daughter turned 18 this month, her dad has never paid child support. He works under the table as a welder in WA State. He also claims public assistance and was receiving it until Feb 2006; now he is receiving food stamps. It is my understanding that his wife was able to get them assistance, but they have no children living at home. My daughter will graduate from H.S. in June and continue on with college. I have been told that his obligation is void because she is 18 (not that he owned up to any obligation in the past). Of course, now he has decided to start calling my daughter and regularly; I am sure it is because he thinks he is home free now.... he made it 18 years evading and working the system! Thank goodness my daughter can see right through him; however it doesn't change the fact that he is trying to now embed himself in her life. How can someone like this work the system? I feel like my only retaliation is to finally expose the fraud and con-man he is. Is it slander or defamation of character if I publish and essay exposing this deadbeat? Is there anything I can do to get him to pay and help with college?
Did you ever hear of the saying "you can't get a blood from a turnip?" What you are going through is really nothing extraordinary. Many people do this. But let's be honest, both the CP's and NCP's out there "work the system." From what I've researched, it's easy for a CP to work the system more because the system pretty much treats the NCP as a criminal on house arrest because they seem to track your every move.

About a month ago, I got a letter asking for a "records update" from CSEA and since this info was provided to them already, I, in not so direct terms, told them to shove their request (and I called it harassment) up their ass.

As ceara mentioned, once the child turns 18, you will see their "interest" pretty much fall off the planet. When the child becomes an adult, it is no longer their problem to collect. They leave it up to the parent. I am sure the state already has liens against any property he might have, plus license suspensions. But I would not rely on the state to do much, if any. You're just another piece of paper in a mountain-high stack.

As far as you publishing his name, he most certainly can turn around and file a civil suit against you. As far as college, he isn't paying now, what makes you think he's gonna do that? Plus, if there's no language addressing college, it's really too late to have it addressed now.

I would also like to add that your header is slightly misleading and actually inappropriate. When it comes to "free money", the person COLLECTING child support is the one who gets the free money. Don't get those of us paying started...
 
It might just be me, but I'm not sure I'm following exactly what you've done to help enforce the order over the past 18 years. I certainly can't figure out why you would have paid an attorney to enforce what CSEA is already paid to do. However, realizing that they are bogged down, over-worked and under-resourced, what steps did you take to help enforce this order? Was his driver's license suspended? Where any tax returns liened? How about a bank account lien? If he's working under the table, did you subpoena bank records? What about warrants? And what do you mean when you say, "they are the same system that is giving this guy assistance." I can't figure that one out at all.

So really the question is are you more angry that you feel like he "evaded the system" to which you contributed minimally to help enforce the child support order or are you just mad because he's contacting the daughter now? It's one thing to rant and rave that you didn't receive support, but I'm just not seeing where you put the work in to enforce it. All that does is lead me to the conclusion that you wanted his money, didn't get it (or what you were supposed to get), so you didn't let him see the daughter. Now you're mad because some of those control issues are being taken away. I don't know. Maybe I'm having an off day, but that's just my gut feeling.
 

roco23

Junior Member
Nicetryadmin-

I appreciate you writing and the fact that you also seem to be a contributing parent for your child/children. I completely agree with you that you cannot get blood out of a turnip. IF you find my title misleading, you are obviously mistaken and are applying your own bias. In my particular case, IF I had ever received child support, it would not be free money but rather contribute to the livelihood of my daughter; good things like food, water, shelter, clothing. HOWEVER, instead of giving me 'free money' as you would call it; he receives welfare while working under the table in order to evade paying any support. That is what I see as 'Free money!' Obviously, you are a responsible, functioning person and do even the little things like read your mail; unfortunately, small things like that don't inspire any sort of action from the individual we are talking about in this posting. He has built a life being a con-man and working the system. Honestly, I don't think he will start paying now, I never have. I just find it utterly wrong that someone/anyone can work, collect public assistant and take no sort of obligation participation or responsiblility in the life of a person they helped create. What angers me most is that the answer always seems to be, 'there is nothing you can do'. I think as far as publishing his name, at most he could threat throwing a defamation or libel case at me-- but, would be a bluff more than likely.

(FYI- I am fully aware that sometimes reverse situations can be unfair. A friend of mine is married to a good man, with two children and he gives 50% of his income to the ex wife)
 

roco23

Junior Member
SingleMom67-

Of course I am not including an 18 year journal here, and you would obviously have no way of knowing all the details. The reason I paid an attorney 4 years ago is because as I mentioned, NOTHING was getting done at the state level! I also wanted to ensure that my daughter did not have to be in an unsafe environment against her will, if by any chance he tried to mandate the parenting plan as he threatened every 4-5 years (filed when she was 2 years old, that he NEVER followed, i.e.: visitation, etc.), I needed to see what mine and my daughters rights were and be educated-- (of course, he never pursued this, but as a mother, I needed to be pro-active-- and thankfully the judge agreed to hear from my daughter due to her dad's negligent life)

Let me further explain, that this individual has had a suspended license off and on since he was 16 years old! Again, nothing that scares or threatens him as he drives regardless. Also, it is giving him entirely too much credit that he might have his own bank account. Working under the table means, no taxes, no state/federal regulated paycheck, just cash or a personal check. I'm not kidding here about dealing with a complete loser, dead beat. He has had plenty of warrants, and has been arrested and in jail numerous times for illegal Admittedly, when my daughter was younger, I was happy that he wasn't interested in being around her, as it would have been more of a determent to her growth.

I was merely pointing out the irony of a state supposedly going after him for child support, yet via a different office down the hall, he is collecting public assistance. That doesn't seem odd to you?

Of which I contributed minimally to help enforce?? Not sure what you mean there, and would love suggestions on getting any sort of functionality out of a person like this!?

It is laughable to say that I wanted his money! What a joke. I have never counted on it, because there was never anything to get. I made my own way for my daughter and I. I made sure she had everything she needed. YES- you are absolutely correct in that, it angers me that now that she is 18, he is calling her, no questions asked; acting as if he has always been around, no explanations, no apologies. You would think at the very least and for her peace of mind; he could apologize for being absent for the majority of her life. What's more, she is going to be in debt up to her eyeballs once her secondary education is complete; yet daddy over there sits, collects tax free money and supplements his income with support from the good old state. Nice! Bottom line, do I want his money, ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Do I want him to be exposed and to actually be a taxpaying citizen and not be able to collect public assistance, ABSOLUTELY!

Thanks for the support, from one single mom to another.
 
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fairisfair

Senior Member
SingleMom67 said:
It might just be me, but I'm not sure I'm following exactly what you've done to help enforce the order over the past 18 years. I certainly can't figure out why you would have paid an attorney to enforce what CSEA is already paid to do. However, realizing that they are bogged down, over-worked and under-resourced, what steps did you take to help enforce this order? Was his driver's license suspended? Where any tax returns liened? How about a bank account lien? If he's working under the table, did you subpoena bank records? What about warrants? And what do you mean when you say, "they are the same system that is giving this guy assistance." I can't figure that one out at all.

So really the question is are you more angry that you feel like he "evaded the system" to which you contributed minimally to help enforce the child support order or are you just mad because he's contacting the daughter now? It's one thing to rant and rave that you didn't receive support, but I'm just not seeing where you put the work in to enforce it. All that does is lead me to the conclusion that you wanted his money, didn't get it (or what you were supposed to get), so you didn't let him see the daughter. Now you're mad because some of those control issues are being taken away. I don't know. Maybe I'm having an off day, but that's just my gut feeling.
You are apparently misinformed regarding the way that CSE works, their attorneys are just that, their attorneys, they do not act on behalf of the custodial parent, although it may sometimes seem that way as their objectives are sometimes parallel with that parent. Any one who has worked with the state systems knows that they are overworked and usually undereducated, what steps would you have suggested that OP take, since her hiring her own attorney apparently rubbed you the wrong way? I say good thing someone "took control", NCP is obviously irresponsible and out of control. How can you possibly hold her responsible for his actions, or lack thereof? Apparently you enjoy paying taxes so that this NCP can collect benefits, I do not. Personally, I would rather be paying his child support to her!
 

MrsK

Senior Member
roco23 It is laughable to say that I wanted his money! What a joke. I have never counted on it said:
I[/B] want his money, ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Do I want him to be exposed and to actually be a taxpaying citizen and not be able to collect public assistance, ABSOLUTELY!

Thanks for the support, from one single mom to another.
I'm curious to know how your daughter will be up to her eyeballs in debt right after graduating from the 12th grade, seeing as how SECONDARY SCHOOL is high school.
 
fairisfair said:
You are apparently misinformed regarding the way that CSE works, their attorneys are just that, their attorneys, they do not act on behalf of the custodial parent, although it may sometimes seem that way as their objectives are sometimes parallel with that parent. Any one who has worked with the state systems knows that they are overworked and usually undereducated, what steps would you have suggested that OP take, since her hiring her own attorney apparently rubbed you the wrong way? I say good thing someone "took control", NCP is obviously irresponsible and out of control. How can you possibly hold her responsible for his actions, or lack thereof? Apparently you enjoy paying taxes so that this NCP can collect benefits, I do not. Personally, I would rather be paying his child support to her!
Oh boy, here with go.... Let's first start with your comment, "misinformed regarding the way that CSE works..." That's almost a funny statement given my experiences these past few years. :cool: I have more knowledge of how CSE works than I care to. The fact of the matter is these workers have a caseload beyond comprehension. As a CP and an advocate for their children, CPs have a responsibility to follow up, ask questions, and pro-actively be involved in enforcement. It wasn't the fact that she hired an attorney that rubbed me wrong. YEAH, I'm all for pulling any and all resources available to get NCPs stepping up to the plate. What rubbed me wrong was I wasn't seeing what efforts she made to be in CSE's face so-to-speak to get them to enforce the order. While it's unfortunate, CPs really, really, really have to be calling, writing, bugging their caseworkers to get liens, suspensions, contempt hearings, bench warrants, etc. You have to be all over them and not come back 18 years later complaining about not getting any money when in effect you were happier sitting back doing nothing. Now I'm not saying this is true of OP, but time and time again I see that CPs want the money but don't want the visitation so they passively sit back thinking they've escaped the visitation battles only to whine later that he didn't pay.

Back to the OP: What doesn't make sense to me is if he was jailed so many times, how did he get out without paying a purge? And in all these years you never called the IRS? :rolleyes:
 

fairisfair

Senior Member
blah blah blah, yes the caseworkers are overworked, because the few who are doing their job (or trying) are just that, the few. And I don't care how many frigging phone calls you make, it doesn't change the fact that "they" are NOT your attorneys, that they will only do so much and that there are restrictions on how fast you can get them to act, if they act at all. Save yourself a stupid post, I know what "they" do alot better than you do, no matter how much time you have spent dealing with your local office from the OUTSIDE....did you know that there are some cse offices that don't even have a means for their own clients to call them on the telephone??????? What does how long the OP waited have to do with whether or not she is entitled to support for her child? So, because she didn't run after him for her money, he is justified in running the other direction? Sorry, kid, mom didn't quit her full time job and leave you at home alone nights to spend her waking hours chasing your deadbeat dad, you are SOL. What an assinine conclusion. So, you are saying that you actually blame her, for his lack of payment. and that she has no right to be upset by his injecting himself back into their lives at this point in time**************...is that ACTUALLY what you are trying to say?.
 
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fairisfair

Senior Member
MrsK said:
I'm curious to know how your daughter will be up to her eyeballs in debt right after graduating from the 12th grade, seeing as how SECONDARY SCHOOL is high school.
Oh so you have learned something after all.
 

fairisfair

Senior Member
SingleMom67 said:
Oh boy, here with go.... Let's first start with your comment, "misinformed regarding the way that CSE works..." That's almost a funny statement given my experiences these past few years. :cool: I have more knowledge of how CSE works than I care to. The fact of the matter is these workers have a caseload beyond comprehension. As a CP and an advocate for their children, CPs have a responsibility to follow up, ask questions, and pro-actively be involved in enforcement. It wasn't the fact that she hired an attorney that rubbed me wrong. YEAH, I'm all for pulling any and all resources available to get NCPs stepping up to the plate. What rubbed me wrong was I wasn't seeing what efforts she made to be in CSE's face so-to-speak to get them to enforce the order. While it's unfortunate, CPs really, really, really have to be calling, writing, bugging their caseworkers to get liens, suspensions, contempt hearings, bench warrants, etc. You have to be all over them and not come back 18 years later complaining about not getting any money when in effect you were happier sitting back doing nothing. Now I'm not saying this is true of OP, but time and time again I see that CPs want the money but don't want the visitation so they passively sit back thinking they've escaped the visitation battles only to whine later that he didn't pay.

Back to the OP: What doesn't make sense to me is if he was jailed so many times, how did he get out without paying a purge? And in all these years you never called the IRS? :rolleyes:
Here is information from her states DCS:

"Before DCS refers any case to a Prosecuting Attorney for a contempt action, DCS must exhaust all administrative remedies to effect payment from the non-custodial parent. This includes attachments of any known bank accounts, seizure of personal property such as vehicles, and license revocation when applicable. DCS must have some evidence that shows the non-custodial parent's ability to pay support. Conviction is based on a preponderance of this evidence. DCS will not refer a case for contempt when the non-custodial parent is receiving disability payments or is receiving any kind of public assistance."

Do you understand what that means, as long as he gets public assistance, they will do NOTHING, I don't care if she made a million phone calls, and picketed the office while her children ran naked on the sidewalk out front. They would do nothing.
 
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