Can I sue for fraud, emotional distress etc?

[34thebeach]

@ Stealth 2 @ Future dust @ Prosperpina

I won't bother with quoting from your posts and just address the common threads.

I have tried to explain that my question and issue is not with whether I owe and or will pay the back support for the time my daughter was missing. It is about the mothers actions and false claims etc. that the court simply took at face value EVEN after I submitted canceled checks, wire transfers and bank statements proving I had paid from 1994 - 2000. I KNOW the issues of concealment and back support for 2001 to 2009 are separate issues in the courts eyes.

I did go to the courts...they told me to find a private detective...and could not give me legal advice.

On one had you collectively tell me I should have put all the money into a savings account, then I should have used it for an attorney or P.I. I try to save as much as I could at different times but I do have a life and other responsibilities. I was unable to see of talk to my child as a result of THE MOTHER disappearing...NOT ME choosing not to pay or not wanting to have interaction, so I had to use the few months at a time I had accumulated to survive and take care of my family who lived with me and I had contact with.

Even a couple thousand dollars was not acceptable to the lawyers and P.I.'s I talked to because I lived out of state.

Again none of you are addressing that it was the mothers actions that started all this in motion...not my actions. I was current on all payments, I called my daughter several times a week, went to California once or twice a year etc. when I could.

Had the mother not disappeared there never would have been a missed payment just like there were no missed payments from 1994 - 2000. That is not addressed here either. Do not think I am seeking praise for doing what I was supposed and happy to do...which is pay my support. I am simply saying that THE MOTHER disappeared not me...she is the one who caused this.

I talked to every attorney and P.I. I could find in that area and none of them would take payments and certainly not $300. $300 for them is roughly one hours work. They all wanted very large retainers to even moved forward after the initial conversation and I did not have those large sums. I live out of state and could not traverse San Diego County or the western US myself.

I am not concerned about paying the back support in that whether I agree or not that there should be some adjustment at least to the interest as a result of the mothers actions. I just want credit for what I did pay and will handle the rest. Although I will appeal to the court to take certain factors and her actions which all of you seem to say were fine and NONE OF YOU ARE ADDRESSING into consideration.

You are taking the word whim out of context. We had been doing what we could with the economic resources we had to try and find her. Once again, if one does not have economic resources one does not get very far...especially in California and if you live out of state. The fact that we tried My Space was in fact yet another attempt at using a resource we had to try and find her and it paid off.

If a detective is searching for a perp of some kind they exhaust all leads and avenues of finding that person that they have at their disposal and know of. Which is exactly what I did. But in your eyes it is the cop who is at fault here not the perp. The perp should just walk because the cop was unable to find him for some time and the cops have untold resources available to them compared to my resources? Really? If they do not find the perp the case goes cold. The cops hope and pray for a "whimsical" opportunity or situation to arise that proves to be fruitful and successful. When the case goes to court the perp cannot stand up and say yeah I broke the law but they did not find me so I am not responsible. This is the same thing.

I paid the support after we found her for a time until the court did not recognize the monies I had paid for years 1994 - 2000. Since then I have been trying to get the materials together to set up the telephonic hearing, but have wanted to find an attorney or group to help on some level. However I am certainly learning what I continue to repeat....and that it the it simply does not matter what she does or that SHE started all this yet she is not held accountable.

WHY have NONE of you addressed my questions regarding what the mother did? Everything I have been saying is being completely supported by your statements as far as the mother and the system...

It seems that one of the key factor is that I did not and do not have the economic resource to stage a more aggressive costly search or legal presentation now etc. and because my resources were and limited I am at fault not the one who initiated all this and chose the actions she did that in contempt of the court order. That does not matter to you and apparently the court...It is about the money! Which again is absurd. It is all about the money...

I have learned what I needed to learn from this forum...that the onus IS ALWAYS on the farther no matter what the mother does in contempt of the court order. She disappears, does not contact the court, does not contact me, closes her bank account, has her family not respond to me, files fraudulent false statements regarding the monies I had paid ($30K), then lies about the payments she did receive when asked if she did receive the payments after I sent them to the court...

And no matter what, the father has to spend the time, money and energy and she just goes on about her business even though she was under the same court order I was...again none of you have addressed that. Why?

You have unfortunately reinforced what I know to be the reality...screw the dads no matter what they try to do and damn them if they are not wealthy enough to pay the cost associated with the legal system...and the mother can do what she wants...just get that precious money is first foremost on the list and damn the rest...

Why have none of you addressed what she did which put and kept all of this in motion...ever hear of cause and effect...SHE is the cause here...not me...

If someone runs into a building with 10 people in it and yelled fire then runs out causing a panic in the 10 in the building and one of the 10 is unfortunately killed by being trampled on by the other 9 I guess you guys would go after the nine (who may have some culpability) but the person who caused the panic would just walk right?

 

[CourtClerk]

I did go to the courts...they told me to find a private detective...and could not give me legal advice.

You went in front of a judge and the JUDGE told you to find a private detective? Really?

Or did you go into the clerk's office and think that someone there was going to listen to a long drawn out pitiful story (such as the ones you keep posting here) and then sit with you and tell you exactly what to do?

 

[Isis1]

Look, mom isn't the one here asking questions. You want us to berate her. Not going to happen. You want us to agree with you that she is a horrible person. Not going to happen. She isn't here.

We can't undo what you failed to do. When you showed up for your court ordered visitation, and your daughter was not made available, you should have headed to court to file for contempt. Had you done that, this might not have gone where it did. But you didn't.

When you were getting your wire transfers sent back, you should have filed with the child support agency to create an account to send the money and keep a record. But you didn't.

Now, you are saying for the time period you paid, and have provided proof you are paying, did you request a full audit?

I've had my own issue with the child support and when they finished (took three years to reflect on my account) they in the end fixed it.

 

[34thebeach]

@ Court Clerk

As I have stated I did not go in front of a judge. It costs money to get in front of a judge. I did call the clerk and she did not give me any advice except find a P.I. and that she could not give me legal advice. When I contacted attorneys to get me in front of a judge they wanted large retainers which I did not have.

So no money for attorney. equals not getting in front of a judge back then when she first disappeared. So again court clerk...the fact that the mother was in contempt and moved without notifying me or the court does not matter right?

If anything is pitiful here it is your collective refusal to address what she did that put all this in motion in direct opposition to the same court order you all so "harshly" hold me to, which I am NOT disputing.

LOL...I have my answers...her actions do not matter. It is my lack of resources to act appropriately in all of your eyes and the courts eyes that matters.

Again..I notice you do not address the direct questions about her actions and or the analogies I try to use. Because you have no logical reply.

 

[Proserpina]

As I have stated I did not go in front of a judge. It costs money to get in front of a judge. I did call the clerk and she did not give me any advice except find a P.I. and that she could not give me legal advice. When I contacted attorneys to get me in front of a judge they wanted large retainers which I did not have.

So no money for attorney. equals not getting in front of a judge back then when she first disappeared. So again court clerk...the fact that the mother was in contempt and moved without notifying me or the court does not matter right?

If anything is pitiful here it is your collective refusal to address what she did that put all this in motion in direct opposition to the same court order you all so "harshly" hold me to, which I am NOT disputing.

LOL...I have my answers...her actions do not matter. It is my lack of resources to act appropriately in all of your eyes and the courts eyes that matters.

Again..I notice you do not address the direct questions about her actions and or the analogies I try to use. Because you have no logical reply.

What she did - whatever and whenever it was - is now NOTHING TO DO with your current situation.

I can't understand why you're not grasping that?

This is no longer about MOM.

It's about what YOU need to do. And what you failed to do.

 

[CourtClerk]

As I have stated I did not go in front of a judge. It costs money to get in front of a judge.

A motion is and has been $40 for the last 5 years or so. Cheaper than that. People learn to draw them up by themselves all the time. I see it daily. Might not be the best prepared motion, but it's enough to get their point across and get them into court.

I did call the clerk and she did not give me any advice except find a P.I. and that she could not give me legal advice.

That is correct, and had it been any of my staff, they would have thrown in "they don't have time to listen to your story." Do your research and get yourself into court. Really, go into a family court one day and see JUST HOW MANY self represented individuals you see. You'll find more of those than you'll find attorneys... and they make it through. All the time. Successfully.

You want to whine, do it elsewhere. I'll say it again, if you can't get yourself through a custody and support issue, what makes you think you're going to maneuver yourself through a complex civil issue? How are you going to do THAT without the attorney you say you can't afford (or are you going to find the money for that)?

 

[CourtClerk]

Again..I notice you do not address the direct questions about her actions and or the analogies I try to use. Because you have no logical reply.

Oh, and I have replies... I could probably walk you through this...

but when your first post is some self-serving, sanctimonious, pompous post as the one you made when I first responded? You don't get my help honey. I don't roll like that... ever.

And there have been a couple of people I have walked through their case. I've got NO problem doing for folks who want to do for themselves. Whiners stand to the left and let it keep working for you the way it has been. It's been everyone else's fault but your own and in your world, it'll continue to be. So yes, you need an attorney

 

[Willlyjo]

First, sincerely, thank you for your continued participation here. I am obviously bias and emotionally attached. But WOW...No Properpina I did not walk away in any sense of the word or insinuated action. You are right, as I have stated before, there are two issues, the support and the concealment.

No the courts are not my attorney, but they are acting as hers. They ask her if what I sent them as proof of payment was real and she can just say NO and they act on it and take her word? They are freaking bank statements, canceled checks, wire transfers etc. of the money that was paid. Wow...

How can I be the one who walked away when I did not move, I did not stop trying to make my support payments, my address etc. is and was the same. She could have called me, written me whatever at ANY time...and I walked away because I did not have the money to pay for a California P.I. or the absurd retainer for a lawyer. We obviously disagree and come two different sides of the universe on this one...

I do not know anything about you or or background, economic status etc. But if you have never been economically challenged, you would not say I should have and could have done more. As you well know, everything with regards to this system costs money...and lots of it. As with my current situation. A strong knowledgeable family law attorney in California could work wonders with this case to some degree. I haven't got the money they want. That does not make me any less a parent or love my daughter and desire to spend time with her. If one does not have it one cannot take aggressive swift and possibly more appropriate action.

I did what I could with what I had from where I was at physically.

It is amazing to me that you nor anyone else will address the FACT that she was under that SAME court order I was under. She moved, did not tell me or the court where she was, how to reach her, closed her bank account, etc. and that is somehow my fault? Really? Yeah that is harsh. It does not hurt my feelings or change my view or position. And to reiterate...I am not questioning "per say" the support that is potentially due during my daughters concealment, although I obviously DO think that other Facts should be heard and considered. If they will allow me to present those facts great.

Again...why does no one address her actions

Whatever...thank you all seriously...Sorry I upset you Court Clerk.

If you know a good lawyer with who works on a sliding scale or pro bono...please let me know...I would like to have a fighting chance...

Addressing the issues of false statements and perjury by the mother of your daughter, yes, you can sue her (anyone can sue anyone for anything). Would you be successful? I don't know. However, the emotional distress and economic losses you sustained due to the mother's fraud seems like it would rise to the level that California courts would recognize.

You DO seem intelligent enough that if you wanted to persue this matter in Pro Se, you could research causes of actions like Fraud and Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress and the proper pleadings necessary in putting together a Complaint to file in the Superior Court.

Having said all that, what are you after? It should be easy to prove (in dealing with the amount of child support in arrears) that you don't owe what they say you do, since you have the cancelled checks! What would suing the mother for her fraud do? She probably don't have the money to compensate you for your economic losses and/or punitive damages if you do prevail on a fraud claim.

You should let it go (except for getting the rightful amount of support documented) because it will consume you as far as further stress. Your daughter is at an age in which securing a relationship with her shouldn't be a problem--take it from there. Good luck to you in whatever course you decide to take.

 

[Proserpina]

Addressing the issues of false statements and perjury by the mother of your daughter, yes, you can sue her (anyone can sue anyone for anything). Would you be successful? I don't know. However, the emotional distress and economic losses you sustained due to the mother's fraud seems like it would rise to the level that California courts would recognize.

Not knowing what Mom said, we can't say that at all.

Having said all that, what are you after? It should be easy to prove (in dealing with the amount of child support in arrears) that you don't owe what they say you do, since you have the cancelled checks! What would suing the mother for her fraud do? She probably don't have the money to compensate you for your economic losses and/or punitive damages if you do prevail on a fraud claim.

Did you miss where he didn't pay for YEARS? He has a real, legitimate child support debt.

Alas, sticking it to Mom seems to be the goal here

You should let it go (except for getting the rightful amount of support documented) because it will consume you as far as further stress.

I absolutely agree.

Your daughter is at an age in which securing a relationship with her shouldn't be a problem--take it from there. .

Ah, I'm not so sure about that.

Dad basically abandoned her. Kids tend to think poorly of parents who do that.

 

[Willlyjo]

Not knowing what Mom said, we can't say that at all.





Did you miss where he didn't pay for YEARS? He has a real, legitimate child support debt.

Alas, sticking it to Mom seems to be the goal here




I absolutely agree.





Ah, I'm not so sure about that.

Dad basically abandoned her. Kids tend to think poorly of parents who do that.

Dad abandoned her? Didn't you read the part where the mother took off leaving behind no forwarding address? Give me a break.

 

[Proserpina]

Dad abandoned her? Didn't you read the part where the mother took off leaving behind no forwarding address? Give me a break.

Yes, Willlyjo. Dad LEGALLY abandoned her.

Dad had legal recourse.

Dad chose not to follow through.

He legally abandoned her.

This IS a legal forum, remember.

 

[CourtClerk]

Dad abandoned her? Didn't you read the part where the mother took off leaving behind no forwarding address? Give me a break.

And dad did NOTHING about it... nothing at all. Except for maybe complain and try and get someone to feel sorry for him, but there is absolutely NO RECORD ANYWHERE that dad attempted to do one. little. thing. about the situation.

 

[Isis1]

Dad abandoned her? Didn't you read the part where the mother took off leaving behind no forwarding address? Give me a break.

Dad didn't do anything about it. He was fine with it. For many years. In legal actions, no action is agreement.

 

[34thebeach]

@ everyone...lol...

If I may be a smart arse to a degree here...I want to do a basic litmus test to see if we are all on the same page to some degree...the sky is blue right?...lol...

As all of you know, by design the system is very complicated and of course very costly. Regardless of intelligence or ability, one without economic resources must do what they can to get some form of resolution which I am attempting to do. Your opinions of me etc. really do not matter, just like the facts do not matter to some of you. I share the back story by the way not to gain cheerleaders or a bashing team on the mom. She is a good mother with regards to her one on one with the kids which she has 5 kids from 4 different dads. It is the antics she pulls with the dads that the other dads and I have problems with.

Music man

I was never served with anything after she filed her papers in mid 2008. The court knew where I was, my address, phone number, employer, everything as it had not changed in years. But I was not served with anything and so I obviously did not participate in any hearing or whatever if there was one as I did not know about it. I know I know...I should have had ESP and telepathy to just KNOW what was going on in California just like I am responsible for the mother disappearing...my bad again...

I found out about her actions by receiving a statement in the mail that I get every month now with balances on it. I called the court immediately and have been "working" with them to get it resolved. It went down hill a bit when I sent notarized copies of all the checks etc. and they said the mother did not agree and that she claimed they were not real. They took her word for it and now I have to take further costly steps to prove they are real. Which they are.

To clarify for everyone so there is NO QUESTION or confusion...

I have now and have had an incredible relationship with my daughter since relocating her so your statement that

Its evident that he wants nothing to do with the mother or daughter

is COMPLETELY INCORRECT with regards to my daughter and 100% accurate with regards to the mother.

Isis

I live out of state and did not show up for visitation. I was called by my bank after my monthly support did not post to her account after they tried it three times. I went to my bank and we called her bank they said the account was closed. I continued to try to reach her by phone and mail...no contact.

As I mentioned in previous posts, whether right or wrong...obviously wrong in retrospect...I chose to try and find her and not involve the courts per say. However, when I did contact the court as I have mentioned they could only "advise" me just so far and none of them suggested to set up an account through them nor did any of the attorney's I spoke with in my free consultations. I was ordered to pay her not the court so unless advised or instructed I simply did not know what action to take. Again, attorney's etc. were to costly...the freaking sky is blue...I did not have the money to pay them so I had NO CHOICE but to continue on my own. Again...I am not saying my actions were prefect. Of course if this were to god forbid repeat itself today I would act in a totally different manner. All of this has nothing to do with my original question though...lol...

I did ask for an audit and they sent me what the mother told them which was that I had only paid $410. I then sent the checks etc. and they responded and said the mother did not agree and I had to go to court. I an attempt to not subject myself to the brutal reality and possible further negative consequences I have been trying to learn more about the process to achieve the best and more FAIR results.

Prosperpina

According to literally all but two of you it never was about the mother and what she did which is what my original question was about...it apparently is about me having to put the poodle skirt on and jump through the hoops no matter what the mother did. I KNOW what I have to do with regards to the support and am hopefully going to get t the date set this next week for the phone hearing to have the audit redone and the account credited what I did pay.

We do not and will not agree on your position about me "abandoning" my daughter. I think that is a rude and to some degree sick statement to accuse someone of abandonment when they simply did not know the law or appropriate actions to take at the time and did not have the economic resources to throw at the system. I guess not having the MONEY makes me a bad person and a bad dad...oh well.

And I am not and have not said I do not have a support debit. I simply want credit for what I paid, adjust the interest accordingly and hopefully adjust some of the interest on the remaining support owed as a result of the mothers actions. At least that would be some thing for her actions..which i know were perfect and have no place in this conversation and she should not not be held responsible for in any way.

Again I did not abandon her and she knows it. She knows the truth and is frustrated with her mom about the way she handled things. We do not talk about it really but to clarify again...she and I are great.

Court Clerk

I am and have been in the process of learning the system to the best of my ability and with the time I have available, but I do have other daily responsibilities and cannot just devote 100% of my time, money and energy to this...I know that makes me wrong again and a bad dad etc. etc...but that is life.

I will submit my request in the best form and format I can and hope that it meets with the courts standards.

While I would prefer to have an attorney I think I will do okay on my own. Again all of this is off topic from my original question, but this forum is enlightening and educational.

I am sure you could hand walk me through this mess and think it is admirable that you have helped others.

I have admitted on several occasions I did not do all I now know I could have and should have. At the time I did what I could and used what I knew at the time. It wasn't enough so I have to make up for some of that now.

But hey...a valid point here is...IF the mother never would have disappeared none of this would be an issue. But I know that still does not matter...and it is my fault she disappeared...

You want to dish your attitude but not take it when it gets dished back...and then take a holier than thou position. Your post was condescending. I was asking for advice and guidance because I do not have the level of knowledge I want in this situation. I call it the way I see it just like you and the others here do. It was not personal. I was just letting you know as I stated that while I appreciate your input your tone was off base to me. If you can help people...you should...

And by the way...I am not trying to get any one to feel sorry for me Court Clerk...

WillyJo

While I am not here looking for praise or even compliments of any kind, I appreciate your comments.

Your first post was direct to my original question. Once I get the support issue adjusted and taken care of I do want to take any civil action I can against the mother and hope that there may be some criminal action that can taken as well. based on the overriding response in this forum however she will make it to sainthood before Mother Teresa...lol...

Keep in mind these actions would relate to a very specific and "narrow" set of claims for any cause of action. The reason I want to take this action is because like anyone else who is been slandered, maligned and been subjected to knowing and willful infliction of emotional and economic distress as a result of someones false and fraudulent claims, I want to be made as whole as possible. Had I abandoned my daughter like Prosperpina believes, or had just stopped paying or tried to duck and run I would not be on this forum.

It is also nice to see at least one statment that lends itself to understanding my original point and question...

Dad abandoned her? Didn't you read the part where the mother took off leaving behind no forwarding address? Give me a break.

What a concept that at least for conversations sake someone else actually gets it...lol...

Thanks to you all...

 

[34thebeach]

just for conversation...

Not that it is relevant in the courts eyes but just for fun...does anyone else think it is at least interesting that the mother did not choose to take any action or file for support etc. during the almost 8 years she was missing? It was not until I FOUND my daughter that she decided to file the false claims and take action?

Because she concealed my daughter...I did not abandon her...the mother knew where I was and how to reach me at all times...

Again, not necessarily relevant to the legal proceedings but compensating to a degree when considering her motives...