Chances of Getting Stolen Dog Back

[willowingrj]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? South Carolina

This is my first time here and I wasn't sure exactly where to post this. It is a business matter, but let me know if I should post it somewhere else.

I am a breeder. We place our breeding dogs in Guardian homes. A Guardian home is a "caretaker" of the breeding dog. They provide a loving home, food etc, while we maintain ownership and breeding rights. This allows all our dogs to be family pets. We have a contract that our Guardian home signs. It does stipulate that we are the sole owners of the dog and that the guardian home has no claim of ownership on any puppies, cannot breed the dog, spay/neuter the dog, and that ownership will be transferred to the Guardian home once the dog is retired from our breeding program and has been spayed/neutered. Unfortunately we are having an issue with one of our Guardian homes. She has had one of our dogs since she was a puppy. We have been in contact with her many times in the last almost 2 years. We have exchanged emails, she has sent us pictures. The dog visited us in January so we could get to know her before we bred her. There were no problems. The Guardian home began causing trouble after the dog was bred on 2-23. When my husband met her to exchange the dog after we bred her she verbally attacked him and berated him for 20 minuted trying to provoke an argument. My husband remained calm and diffused the situation as much as he could. We tried and thought we had smoothed things over. We contacted her and let her know we had an ultrasound scheduled for 3-24 and that we would need to meet to pick the dog up on 3-23 and could meet again on 3-24 to return her to her Guardian home until she was ready to deliver her puppies. We(we decided it was best for neither of us to go alone to meet her after how she behaved the last time) met her on 3-23 without incident. On 3-24 we confirmed that she was pregnant and met the Guardian home to return her. At this point she became verbally aggressive and tried to provoke a fight. When I tried to get her to confirm that we would be bringing the dog back to us on 4-13, she said we'll have to get our lawyers to figure it out and began backing away towards her car. We followed, at a distance and told her that we couldn't let her leave with our pregnant dog while threatening not to return her. At this point she roughly shoved the pregnant dog into her car. My husband said, I'm going to call the police. The guardian home lady then started yelling, help help! This lady is trying to "square up on me". However we were lucky and there were police officers that were just about to go through the drive through and my husband was out in the parking lot flagging them down. It was easy for them to see that even though she was yelling, nothing was happening and that I was a good 3-5 feet away from her. We did have to speak to the police and because they deemed it a civil matter with no criminal charges to be filed(no assault etc) they let her go with the dog. We do have a call in to our lawyer but of course it is a holiday weekend so we are on pins and needles trying not to get ourselves worked up as we worry about the well being of our dog and her puppies. I think our lawyer plans to file an injunction to get our dog back. Can you tell us the likelihood of us getting her back? As I mentioned, we do have a contract, almost two years worth of emails talking about the dog and breeding her. We also have a website with the dog listed there as one of our breeding dogs. We have Vet bills showing that we did the breeding and the ultrasound confirming pregnancy. The dog is also registered with the CKC under our names and breeding program. The other question would be, are there any criminal charges that can be filed. This woman is knowingly stealing a breeding dog that is pregnant with puppies(that we already have pre-sold by the way). It seems unfair that there wouldn't be a way to file criminal charges against her. Sorry for the length of the question. Just wanted to give as much detail as possible. We are in South Carolina and the Guardian home is in Georgia. Thanks so much!

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? South Carolina

This is my first time here and I wasn't sure exactly where to post this. It is a business matter, but let me know if I should post it somewhere else.

I am a breeder. We place our breeding dogs in Guardian homes. A Guardian home is a "caretaker" of the breeding dog. They provide a loving home, food etc, while we maintain ownership and breeding rights. This allows all our dogs to be family pets. We have a contract that our Guardian home signs. It does stipulate that we are the sole owners of the dog and that the guardian home has no claim of ownership on any puppies, cannot breed the dog, spay/neuter the dog, and that ownership will be transferred to the Guardian home once the dog is retired from our breeding program and has been spayed/neutered. Unfortunately we are having an issue with one of our Guardian homes. She has had one of our dogs since she was a puppy. We have been in contact with her many times in the last almost 2 years. We have exchanged emails, she has sent us pictures. The dog visited us in January so we could get to know her before we bred her. There were no problems. The Guardian home began causing trouble after the dog was bred on 2-23. When my husband met her to exchange the dog after we bred her she verbally attacked him and berated him for 20 minuted trying to provoke an argument. My husband remained calm and diffused the situation as much as he could. We tried and thought we had smoothed things over. We contacted her and let her know we had an ultrasound scheduled for 3-24 and that we would need to meet to pick the dog up on 3-23 and could meet again on 3-24 to return her to her Guardian home until she was ready to deliver her puppies. We(we decided it was best for neither of us to go alone to meet her after how she behaved the last time) met her on 3-23 without incident. On 3-24 we confirmed that she was pregnant and met the Guardian home to return her. At this point she became verbally aggressive and tried to provoke a fight. When I tried to get her to confirm that we would be bringing the dog back to us on 4-13, she said we'll have to get our lawyers to figure it out and began backing away towards her car. We followed, at a distance and told her that we couldn't let her leave with our pregnant dog while threatening not to return her. At this point she roughly shoved the pregnant dog into her car. My husband said, I'm going to call the police. The guardian home lady then started yelling, help help! This lady is trying to "square up on me". However we were lucky and there were police officers that were just about to go through the drive through and my husband was out in the parking lot flagging them down. It was easy for them to see that even though she was yelling, nothing was happening and that I was a good 3-5 feet away from her. We did have to speak to the police and because they deemed it a civil matter with no criminal charges to be filed(no assault etc) they let her go with the dog. We do have a call in to our lawyer but of course it is a holiday weekend so we are on pins and needles trying not to get ourselves worked up as we worry about the well being of our dog and her puppies. I think our lawyer plans to file an injunction to get our dog back. Can you tell us the likelihood of us getting her back? As I mentioned, we do have a contract, almost two years worth of emails talking about the dog and breeding her. We also have a website with the dog listed there as one of our breeding dogs. We have Vet bills showing that we did the breeding and the ultrasound confirming pregnancy. The dog is also registered with the CKC under our names and breeding program. The other question would be, are there any criminal charges that can be filed. This woman is knowingly stealing a breeding dog that is pregnant with puppies(that we already have pre-sold by the way). It seems unfair that there wouldn't be a way to file criminal charges against her. Sorry for the length of the question. Just wanted to give as much detail as possible. We are in South Carolina and the Guardian home is in Georgia. Thanks so much!

The answers to your questions should be found in the terms of the contracts you have with the guardian homes.

I assume your attorney has read the contract in its entirety so your attorney is in a better position to know how enforceable the terms of the contract are, which in turn can give you an indication of how likely you are to get the dog back.

If the contract holds up and the terms are enforceable as written, it could be possible for the holder of the dog to be criminally charged if the dog is not returned to you, as well as sued for breach of contract.

Good luck.

 

[willowingrj]

We have sent the contract over for our lawyer to review. We haven't really discussed it at this point. He told us that since the Guardian family is in Georgia we will have to get a lawyer from Georgia to file an injunction. We hope to be in contact with one our lawyer is referring us to this week. When you are dealing with living creatures that you are attached to and concerned for, each day is very long. Thank you very much for your help. I will definitely ask about the things you mentioned.

 

[quincy]

We have sent the contract over for our lawyer to review. We haven't really discussed it at this point. He told us that since the Guardian family is in Georgia we will have to get a lawyer from Georgia to file an injunction. We hope to be in contact with one our lawyer is referring us to this week. When you are dealing with living creatures that you are attached to and concerned for, each day is very long. Thank you very much for your help. I will definitely ask about the things you mentioned.

If the woman in the guardian home has cared for the dog for any length of time, she has probably become as attached to the dog as you have. That should mean that the dog will at least receive good care during her pregnancy, this whether the dog is with you or with the woman in the guardian home, should it take awhile to get the injunction.

Good luck.

 

[latigo]

We have sent the contract over for our lawyer to review. We haven't really discussed it at this point. He told us that since the Guardian family is in Georgia we will have to get a lawyer from Georgia to file an injunction (?). We hope to be in contact with one our lawyer is referring us to this week. When you are dealing with living creatures that you are attached to and concerned for, each day is very long. Thank you very much for your help. I will definitely ask about the things you mentioned.

An "injunction"?

You have a clear and adequate legal remedy in both tort and contract. Injunctive relief is equitable in nature and only granted when you don't have an adequate remedy in law.

Hopefully, the Georgia lawyer is savvier than the one you have in South Carolina.

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? South Carolina

This is my first time here and I wasn't sure exactly where to post this. It is a business matter, but let me know if I should post it somewhere else.

I am a breeder. We place our breeding dogs in Guardian homes. A Guardian home is a "caretaker" of the breeding dog. They provide a loving home, food etc, while we maintain ownership and breeding rights. This allows all our dogs to be family pets. We have a contract that our Guardian home signs. It does stipulate that we are the sole owners of the dog and that the guardian home has no claim of ownership on any puppies, cannot breed the dog, spay/neuter the dog, and that ownership will be transferred to the Guardian home once the dog is retired from our breeding program and has been spayed/neutered. Unfortunately we are having an issue with one of our Guardian homes. She has had one of our dogs since she was a puppy. We have been in contact with her many times in the last almost 2 years. We have exchanged emails, she has sent us pictures.


The dog visited us in January so we could get to know her before we bred her. There were no problems. The Guardian home began causing trouble after the dog was bred on 2-23. When my husband met her to exchange the dog after we bred her she verbally attacked him and berated him for 20 minuted trying to provoke an argument. My husband remained calm and diffused the situation as much as he could. We tried and thought we had smoothed things over. We contacted her and let her know we had an ultrasound scheduled for 3-24 and that we would need to meet to pick the dog up on 3-23 and could meet again on 3-24 to return her to her Guardian home until she was ready to deliver her puppies. We(we decided it was best for neither of us to go alone to meet her after how she behaved the last time) met her on 3-23 without incident. On 3-24 we confirmed that she was pregnant and met the Guardian home to return her. At this point she became verbally aggressive and tried to provoke a fight. When I tried to get her to confirm that we would be bringing the dog back to us on 4-13, she said we'll have to get our lawyers to figure it out and began backing away towards her car. We followed, at a distance and told her that we couldn't let her leave with our pregnant dog while threatening not to return her. At this point she roughly shoved the pregnant dog into her car. My husband said, I'm going to call the police.

The guardian home lady then started yelling, help help! This lady is trying to "square up on me". However we were lucky and there were police officers that were just about to go through the drive through and my husband was out in the parking lot flagging them down. It was easy for them to see that even though she was yelling, nothing was happening and that I was a good 3-5 feet away from her. We did have to speak to the police and because they deemed it a civil matter with no criminal charges to be filed(no assault etc) they let her go with the dog. We do have a call in to our lawyer but of course it is a holiday weekend so we are on pins and needles trying not to get ourselves worked up as we worry about the well being of our dog and her puppies. I think our lawyer plans to file an injunction to get our dog back.


Can you tell us the likelihood of us getting her back? As I mentioned, we do have a contract, almost two years worth of emails talking about the dog and breeding her. We also have a website with the dog listed there as one of our breeding dogs. We have Vet bills showing that we did the breeding and the ultrasound confirming pregnancy. The dog is also registered with the CKC under our names and breeding program.

The other question would be, are there any criminal charges that can be filed. This woman is knowingly stealing a breeding dog that is pregnant with puppies(that we already have pre-sold by the way). It seems unfair that there wouldn't be a way to file criminal charges against her. Sorry for the length of the question. Just wanted to give as much detail as possible. We are in South Carolina and the Guardian home is in Georgia. Thanks so much!

For ease of read.

 

[justalayman]

I have to say you have one hell of a scam, um, I mean deal going on. Some strangers raise the dog at their expense with no compensation Other than the promise that someday they will get to keep the dog all the while you breed the dog and profit from it. That is one heck of a deal...for you.


Your problem is that unless your contract allows you to terminate the contract you can't decide you want the dog back because of what was said to you. You are bound by the contract just as they are. Attempting to take the dog from them without legal cause is a breach of the contract.

If that wasn't clear; there is no chance at getting the dog back unless your contract allows for it. At best you have a claim of an anticipatory breach but you really don't even have that. She didn't say she wouldn't return the dog. She said the lawyers would have to deal with it.

 

[quincy]

An "injunction"?

You have a clear and adequate legal remedy in both tort and contract. Injunctive relief is equitable in nature and only granted when you don't have an adequate remedy in law.

Hopefully, the Georgia lawyer is savvier than the one you have in South Carolina.

A preventive injunction might be granted to prevent the guardian home woman from terminating the dog's pregnancy or, depending on facts, selling the puppies born to the dog. In other words, the idea of an injunction does not seem as unreasonable to me as you seem to imply it is, latigo. Perhaps I am not seeing something that you are, though?

Of course, and as justalayman has re-emphasized, any legal recourse really depends on the wording of the contracts and the enforceability of their terms.

 

[RRevak]

Please explain how you maintain ownership while every "guardian" home I'm aware of is either a full or partial owner of their dog while the program merely maintains breeders rights?

 

[quincy]

Please explain how you maintain ownership while every "guardian" home I'm aware of is either a full or partial owner of their dog while the program merely maintains breeders rights?

It sounds similar to the dog "foster care" programs I am familiar with here in Michigan. The foster care home has been given no legal rights to the animals they foster - although the foster care families can take steps to adopt the animals and acquire ownership that way. Of course, breeding the animals is not a part of these programs.

 

[latigo]

A preventive injunction might be granted to prevent the guardian home woman from terminating the dog's pregnancy or, depending on facts, selling the puppies born to the dog. In other words, the idea of an injunction does not seem as unreasonable to me as you seem to imply it is, latigo. Perhaps I am not seeing something that you are, though?

Of course, and as justalayman has re-emphasized, any legal recourse really depends on the wording of the contracts and the enforceability of their terms.

( "Preventive injunction"? Isn't that rather redundant? Like living and dying in L.A.?)
__________________________

What I'm seeing in the posting and only seeing is this:

Caption: "Chances of getting stolen dog back?"

"Can you tell us the likelihood of us getting her back?"

Now perhaps you can explain how an injunction is going to get the dog back, but I can't.

Inasmuch as the thread is already belabored and even thought it would seem unnecessary for one versed on the subject of equitable remedies it is worthy of note that:

In the state of Georgia injunctive relief is available only in "clear and urgent cases where there is a vital necessity to prevent a party from being damaged and left without an adequate remedy at law". *

And here the unborn pups have been pre- sold. Thus, irrespective of what occurs with the pregnancy or the pups, should the OP wish to pursue it, the OP would have an adequate remedy at law! The selling price.
_________________________________


[*] OCGA § 9-5-1; 9-5-8;  Lewis v. City of Atlanta, 274 Ga. 296, 297, 553 S.E.2d 611 (2001);  Conner v. Conner, 269 Ga. 112, 114(2), 499 S.E.2d 54 (1998); City of Atlanta et al. v. Southern States Police Benevolent Association of Georgia et al. Court of Appeals of Georgia No. A05A1131. Decided: November 18, 2005

 

[justalayman]

( "Preventive injunction"? Isn't that rather redundant? Like living and dying in L.A.?)
__________________________

What I'm seeing in the posting and only seeing is this:

Caption: "Chances of getting stolen dog back?"

"Can you tell us the likelihood of us getting her back?"

Now perhaps you can explain how an injunction is going to get the dog back, but I can't.

Inasmuch as the thread is already belabored and even thought it would seem unnecessary for one versed on the subject of equitable remedies it is worthy of note that:

In the state of Georgia injunctive relief is available only in "clear and urgent cases where there is a vital necessity to prevent a party from being damaged and left without an adequate remedy at law". *

And here the unborn pups have been pre- sold. Thus, irrespective of what occurs with the pregnancy or the pups, should the OP wish to pursue it, the OP would have an adequate remedy at law! The selling price.
_________________________________


[*] OCGA § 9-5-1; 9-5-8;  Lewis v. City of Atlanta, 274 Ga. 296, 297, 553 S.E.2d 611 (2001);  Conner v. Conner, 269 Ga. 112, 114(2), 499 S.E.2d 54 (1998); City of Atlanta et al. v. Southern States Police Benevolent Association of Georgia et al. Court of Appeals of Georgia No. A05A1131. Decided: November 18, 2005

That is, of course, if the guardian refuses to deliver the pups after their birth (and presumably nursing).

 

[quincy]

( "Preventive injunction"? Isn't that rather redundant? Like living and dying in L.A.?)

Yes, it is redundant. I probably would have chosen to call it something different but no one asked for my opinion.

What I'm seeing in the posting and only seeing is this:

Caption: "Chances of getting stolen dog back?"

"Can you tell us the likelihood of us getting her back?"

Now perhaps you can explain how an injunction is going to get the dog back, but I can't.

The preventive (or preliminary) injunction would be to prevent an irreparable injury from occurring before the court has the opportunity to decide a breach of contract (or other) action. It in itself does nothing to get the dog back. But I suspect you already know that.

Inasmuch as the thread is already belabored and even thought it would seem unnecessary for one versed on the subject of equitable remedies it is worthy of note that:

In the state of Georgia injunctive relief is available only in "clear and urgent cases where there is a vital necessity to prevent a party from being damaged and left without an adequate remedy at law". *

And here the unborn pups have been pre- sold. Thus, irrespective of what occurs with the pregnancy or the pups, should the OP wish to pursue it, the OP would have an adequate remedy at law! The selling price.
_________________________________


[*] OCGA § 9-5-1; 9-5-8;  Lewis v. City of Atlanta, 274 Ga. 296, 297, 553 S.E.2d 611 (2001);  Conner v. Conner, 269 Ga. 112, 114(2), 499 S.E.2d 54 (1998); City of Atlanta et al. v. Southern States Police Benevolent Association of Georgia et al. Court of Appeals of Georgia No. A05A1131. Decided: November 18, 2005

I have no argument with what you posted except that I am not sure it was said anywhere in this thread that the unborn pups have been pre-sold. I would think it hard to determine the selling price of the pups if the pregnancy is terminated (or the pregnant dog is).

Again, though, any legal remedy available seems to lie with the terms and enforceability of the contract.

 

[willowingrj]

I have to say you have one hell of a scam, um, I mean deal going on. Some strangers raise the dog at their expense with no compensation Other than the promise that someday they will get to keep the dog all the while you breed the dog and profit from it. That is one heck of a deal...for you.


Your problem is that unless your contract allows you to terminate the contract you can't decide you want the dog back because of what was said to you. You are bound by the contract just as they are. Attempting to take the dog from them without legal cause is a breach of the contract.

If that wasn't clear; there is no chance at getting the dog back unless your contract allows for it. At best you have a claim of an anticipatory breach but you really don't even have that. She didn't say she wouldn't return the dog. She said the lawyers would have to deal with it.

It is no scam, I assure you. We as breeders want all of our dogs to be family pets. We do not have any sort of kennel system in place. Our breeding dogs either live with us or with a Guardian family. This allows each dog to have a family(many times us) that raises them with love, and the are able to participate in all aspects of their family life. Our Guardian families actually get their dogs at 1/2 price(sometimes less) and they do receive a "thank you" fee after each litter. We retire our dogs very young. Sometimes they only have one litter. We do health testing on our breeding dogs at our cost, so Guardian homes also have the luxury of knowing just how healthy their dogs are.

I can't say that I am surprised that someone would get on their high horse and talk down to me even without the facts. Just because I breed dogs doesn't mean I'm stupid. I did go to college and have been running my own business for 10 years. I am not a lawyer however, which is why I came here to hopefully get some advice that would help assuage some of my concerns.

We care for each one of our breeding dogs and puppies. We are very concerned for her well being and the well being of the puppies. This lady has been aggressive, picked fights with us, and refused to agree to set up a pick up for when the dog is ready to deliver her puppies. She was very rough with the dog when picking her up(she cried out at one point) and when trying to shove her in the car. All of this is unwarranted, as we are always incredibly professional and flexible with our Guardian families. We have great concern that she would abort the puppies, or even harm the dog in the hopes of her losing the puppies.

I would imagine that since the Guardian home has no ownership rights until we retire our breeding dog, that we do in fact have the right to get the dog back if we fear for her safety, the safety of the puppies or feel that the Guardian home is trying to steal the dog or her puppies. My two points in regards to your comment would be 1. She would not and still hasn't 4 days later, agreed to the pick up date that I suggested or suggested a new one. She has been completely incommunicado. 2. Why would I need to get my lawyer to deal with her(she said you'll have to get your lawyer to figure this out) if she planned on allowing me to pick the dog up before her puppies were born?

We have had Guardian homes as a part of our breeding program for 10 years. We have never encountered a problem like this and all of our Guardian homes have become the permanent home for our Guardian home dogs once they were retired. We do make that promise to them, and we have kept it every time.

 

[willowingrj]

An "injunction"?

You have a clear and adequate legal remedy in both tort and contract. Injunctive relief is equitable in nature and only granted when you don't have an adequate remedy in law.

Hopefully, the Georgia lawyer is savvier than the one you have in South Carolina.

An injunction is what our lawyer said we could file to get immediate possession of the dog. Again, I am not a lawyer and didn't get to speak to ours too in depth as it was after hours before the long weekend. Can you explain what "tort and contract" means? How we can use it?

Thank you!