Golf course broken window

[rigley]

What is the name of your state? Arizona

I broke a window on a golf course with an errant shot. The accident was unintentional. The owners were in the backyard and I gave them my name and number and we would talk about it. After several rounds I agreed to pay their deductible, $250. I thought everything was fine until I received a letter from their insurance company trying to recoup the additional replacement cost of $242. I felt like I should do something and paying the deductible seemed appropriate. I do not feel I should have to pay the additional amount. This house in on the golf course and and I am not liable for this accident but my error was doing anything at all. My questions are, What should I do now? What are my options?

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

What is the name of your state? Arizona

I broke a window on a golf course with an errant shot. The accident was unintentional. The owners were in the backyard and I gave them my name and number and we would talk about it. After several rounds I agreed to pay their deductible, $250. I thought everything was fine until I received a letter from their insurance company trying to recoup the additional replacement cost of $242. I felt like I should do something and paying the deductible seemed appropriate. I do not feel I should have to pay the additional amount. My questions are, What should I do now? What are my options?

My response:

You weren't liable to begin with! Oh, well. Now it's too late.

IAAL

 

[rigley]

Options

My response:

You weren't liable to begin with! Oh, well. Now it's too late.

IAAL

Since I paid the deductable am I liable to pay the additional $242?

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Since I paid the deductable am I liable to pay the additional $242?

My response:

Yes, because you admitted liability and paid the deductible.

IAAL

 

[rigley]

Liable

My response:

Yes, because you admitted liability and paid the deductible.

IAAL

The owner verbally agreed the payment of the deductiable would setttle the issue. The check I sent them had a note that stated "This payment is settlement for the broken window". Is my issue now with the insurance company and not the owner?

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

The owner verbally agreed the payment of the deductiable would setttle the issue. The check I sent them had a note that stated "This payment is settlement for the broken window". Is my issue now with the insurance company and not the owner?

My response:

You don't have an issue with the insurance company. Your "settlement" is not binding on the insurance company. You and the homeowner can't "contract away" their subrogation rights. As an example, read your own homeowner's policy. You'll see and read the verbiage.

It is an express or implied condition of the homeowner's insurance policy that the insured do nothing to interfere with the insurer's subrogation rights against third parties (e.g., by settlement or release).

For example, the policy may provide: "Upon payment under this policy . . . the company shall be subrogated to all the insured's rights of recovery therefor and the insured shall do whatever is necessary to secure such rights and do nothing to prejudice them."

You're on the hook.

IAAL

 

[rigley]

Thanks

My response:

You don't have an issue with the insurance company. Your "settlement" is not binding on the insurance company. You and the homeowner can't "contract away" their subrogation rights. As an example, read your own homeowner's policy. You'll see and read the verbiage.

You're on the hook.

IAAL

Thanks for the information. This will be an expensive lesson. The proper response was to do nothing. If this happens again I will know not to try and help out because you will get burned. Again, thanks for the info.

 

[seniorjudge]

Thanks for the information. This will be an expensive lesson. The proper response was to do nothing. If this happens again I will know not to try and help out because you will get burned. Again, thanks for the info.

And work on that swing, won't you?

Why do people buy houses in the middle of golf courses anyway?

I guess that's one of those unanswerable questions like, "Are Michael Jackson and Jennifer Anniston one and the same person?"

 

[rigley]

Info

And work on that swing, won't you?

Why do people buy houses in the middle of golf courses anyway?

I guess that's one of those unanswerable questions like, "Are Michael Jackson and Jennifer Anniston one and the same person?"

Only one other thing, if I choose to ignore this letter and not pay what will the insurance company do? Sue/lein? What are the steps, number of letters then legal procedures? Fighting an insurance company is like taking on city hall.

Thanks again,

 

[seniorjudge]

Not legal advice:

I personally would pay. You're right about the insurance company analogy to city hall.

An insurance carrier has a lot more time and resources than you do.

You don't want an insurance company suing you and they just might.

 

[rigley]

Not legal advice:

I personally would pay. You're right about the insurance company analogy to city hall.

An insurance carrier has a lot more time and resources than you do.

You don't want an insurance company suing you and they just might.

You're right I will go ahead and pay. It is unfortunate that you try and help then get screwed. The problem now is when I received the letter it went into the shredder. I guess I'll wait on the next one. I hope this incident helps someone, do not admit any liability because you are not liable. Trying to help will cost you money. It is funny people live on a golf course and get upset when golf balls land on their property and cause damage. People wake up you live on a golf course. You pay a premium for that lot because you like to loose your privacy and have errant balls land on your property, I guess. The extreme I have seen is the kids playing in the backyard with football helmets on.

Thanks to all for the info.

 

[Lynx 36]

You're right I will go ahead and pay. It is unfortunate that you try and help then get screwed. The problem now is when I received the letter it went into the shredder. I guess I'll wait on the next one. I hope this incident helps someone, do not admit any liability because you are not liable. Trying to help will cost you money. It is funny people live on a golf course and get upset when golf balls land on their property and cause damage. People wake up you live on a golf course. You pay a premium for that lot because you like to loose your privacy and have errant balls land on your property, I guess. The extreme I have seen is the kids playing in the backyard with football helmets on.

Thanks to all for the info.

I wouldn't pay. The insurance co. will not come after you f/ $242. The two I used to work f/ wouldn't mess w/ it unless it's over $1,000. Your call though.

 

[Alias_joe]

I agree with Lynx- don't pay, trash the letters.

IF they do sue then you have some affirmative defenses (AD)
(I'm just learning about them )

By paying homewoner you agreed to nothing in the way of liability. You just agreed to help defray the costs because you felt you 'might' be partially liable.

AD The homeowner built his house in a hazardous area,
AD The window lacked adequate protection from KNOWN hazards
etc.


Have fun

 

[rigley]

I agree with Lynx- don't pay, trash the letters.

IF they do sue then you have some affirmative defenses (AD)
(I'm just learning about them )

By paying homewoner you agreed to nothing in the way of liability. You just agreed to help defray the costs because you felt you 'might' be partially liable.

AD The homeowner built his house in a hazardous area,
AD The window lacked adequate protection from KNOWN hazards
etc.


Have fun

I have decided to not pay and have replied with the following letter,

I received a notice of payment for a matter that was settled with the owner. The documents were accidentally shredded; all I have is the envelope. I hope to address the issues concerning the broken window.

The owner’s window was broken by an errant unintentional golf shot. I at no time admitted liability but they requested my name and number which I supplied. After a few phone calls and left messages claiming they were demanding payment I called and explained to them that they live on a golf course and they have “assumed risk”. They have purchased property on a golf course and that golf balls will land on their property and possibly cause damage. The owner could not understand that placing herself on a golf course meant that golfers have no liability for this damage. She mentioned the replacement cost was close to $500 and with that in mind I offered to send her $250 to end this matter and the phone calls, she accepted. I considered this money a donation to an elderly couple possibly on a fixed income. My good nature should not be construed as admitting liability.

I have attached the check I sent with a note which clearly states “settlement of broken glass window”. I have no idea what she applied this to, I thought it would be to fix the window but apparently not. The owner clearly saw the note and acquiesced when she deposited the check. At no time did I assume liability for this damage.

I have also attached the standard passage regarding “Golf balls, Disturbances and Nuisances” that is in every neighborhood association covenants, conditions, restrictions and easements. This is a standard declaration for any subdivision with a golf course.

Any suggestions, ideas? I have not sent this letter yet.

Thanks,

 

[Lynx 36]

I have decided to not pay and have replied with the following letter,

I received a notice of payment for a matter that was settled with the owner. The documents were accidentally shredded; all I have is the envelope. I hope to address the issues concerning the broken window.

The owner’s window was broken by an errant unintentional golf shot. I at no time admitted liability but they requested my name and number which I supplied. After a few phone calls and left messages claiming they were demanding payment I called and explained to them that they live on a golf course and they have “assumed risk”. They have purchased property on a golf course and that golf balls will land on their property and possibly cause damage. The owner could not understand that placing herself on a golf course meant that golfers have no liability for this damage. She mentioned the replacement cost was close to $500 and with that in mind I offered to send her $250 to end this matter and the phone calls, she accepted. I considered this money a donation to an elderly couple possibly on a fixed income. My good nature should not be construed as admitting liability.

I have attached the check I sent with a note which clearly states “settlement of broken glass window”. I have no idea what she applied this to, I thought it would be to fix the window but apparently not. The owner clearly saw the note and acquiesced when she deposited the check. At no time did I assume liability for this damage.

I have also attached the standard passage regarding “Golf balls, Disturbances and Nuisances” that is in every neighborhood association covenants, conditions, restrictions and easements. This is a standard declaration for any subdivision with a golf course.

Any suggestions, ideas? I have not sent this letter yet.

Thanks,

Sounds like a good letter. It clearly states you did not accept liability and the reason you paid the $250 to begin with.