postdated check cashed early

[Postdated check]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

The dr.'s office approved a postdated check because my appointment had to be moved up almost a month (non-emergency). I wrote the check upon leaving, and found out today, six days after the appointment, that they already cashed the check. The check was dated for November 24th.

This early-cashing creates a huge problem. I now can't pay rent. It cuts deeply into my rent money.

What options do I have? Is the dr.'s office obligated to refund the payment for now? My apartment manager will NOT wait until my next payday. I will be evicted.

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by Postdated check

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

The dr.'s office approved a postdated check because my appointment had to be moved up almost a month (non-emergency). I wrote the check upon leaving, and found out today, six days after the appointment, that they already cashed the check. The check was dated for November 24th.

This early-cashing creates a huge problem. I now can't pay rent. It cuts deeply into my rent money.

What options do I have? Is the dr.'s office obligated to refund the payment for now? My apartment manager will NOT wait until my next payday. I will be evicted.

Did you notify the bank that you had signed a post-dated check?

[Postdated check]

I just called them (just got off the phone about two minutes ago), and they said there's nothing the can do since it already cleared.

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by Postdated check

I just called them (just got off the phone about two minutes ago), and they said there's nothing the can do since it already cleared.

They're right - had you notified them beforehand and instructed them NOT to pay until the date on the check you may have had some protection.

As it is, you have no recourse against either the bank or the doctor, sorry.

[Postdated check]

Even though the dr's office AGREED to the check being POSTDATED? How can they have the legal right to back out of what we had agreed to? The lady in charge of billing doesn't deny that there was the agreement for it to be postdated. It was just cashed "on accident." So no one is denying that the check being postdated was okay'd. In fact, it was the billing manager's idea. That is also not disputed. They aren't disputing a single thing.

This is an OB/GYN. I'm pregnant and due any day. The dr is the backup for my midwife. Would I be overstepping the boundaries if I wrote negative reviews on every board I can find? I can now no longer pay rent and have to cancel the Webster's breech I've been having done, and no longer have the money to pay for the external version. Because of this, my chance of having to have a c-section has gone through the roof.

THEY agreed. How can they legally back out? How is that not a breech of contract?!

[Zigner]

Even if...

You COULD ask the doc office to write you a check now in return for another post-dated check...

Originally Posted by Postdated check

Even though the dr's office AGREED to the check being POSTDATED? How can they have the legal right to back out of what we had agreed to? The lady in charge of billing doesn't deny that there was the agreement for it to be postdated. It was just cashed "on accident." So no one is denying that the check being postdated was okay'd. In fact, it was the billing manager's idea. That is also not disputed. They aren't disputing a single thing.

This is an OB/GYN. I'm pregnant and due any day. The dr is the backup for my midwife. Would I be overstepping the boundaries if I wrote negative reviews on every board I can find? I can now no longer pay rent and have to cancel the Webster's breech I've been having done, and no longer have the money to pay for the external version. Because of this, my chance of having to have a c-section has gone through the roof.

THEY agreed. How can they legally back out? How is that not a breech of contract?!

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by Postdated check

Even though the dr's office AGREED to the check being POSTDATED? How can they have the legal right to back out of what we had agreed to? The lady in charge of billing doesn't deny that there was the agreement for it to be postdated. It was just cashed "on accident." So no one is denying that the check being postdated was okay'd. In fact, it was the billing manager's idea. That is also not disputed. They aren't disputing a single thing.

The doctors office are not under contract with the bank; when you signed the check you agreed to pay using funds from your account. Again the only way you may have prevented this would have been to instruct the bank in writing before you gave the check to the doctor.

(They'll generally honor the post-date if you do this)

This is an OB/GYN. I'm pregnant and due any day. The dr is the backup for my midwife. Would I be overstepping the boundaries if I wrote negative reviews on every board I can find? I can now no longer pay rent and have to cancel the Webster's breech I've been having done, and no longer have the money to pay for the external version. Because of this, my chance of having to have a c-section has gone through the roof.

While you're allowed to tell the truth this is NOT advisable - particularly as legally speaking they did nothing wrong.

THEY agreed. How can they legally back out? How is that not a breech of contract?!

I'm sorry, but you're the only liable party in this. There is no breech of contract because the contract in question is between you and the bank.

[Proserpina]

And by all means follow Zigner's suggestion - it might just work!

Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy.

[Postdated check]

I've been trying to find who to talk to, and what it's come down to is the office manager isn't in, no one knows when she will be, try calling back. I'm going to get a copy of the check tomorrow and head down their in person and raise hell until they write me a check back and accept another check from me, which I will call the bank and cancel first. I didn't do that first time around because I thought it was illegal, fraud, to write a postdated check and have it stopped.

Not being able to pay for the treatments I need has put me at high risk of having to have surgery. This is bull ****. We can't afford this, and I shouldn't now be at higher risk of surgery.

I'm not understanding how the dr's office did no wrong. Two parties make an agreement, one breeches it. If my check wasn't good on the agreed upon date, I'm in trouble for a bad check, for reneging on the agreement to pay on a certain date. If they cash it early, instead of the agreed on date, it's fine. That makes no sense.

[Proserpina]

Originally Posted by Postdated check

I've been trying to find who to talk to, and what it's come down to is the office manager isn't in, no one knows when she will be, try calling back. I'm going to get a copy of the check tomorrow and head down their in person and raise hell until they write me a check back and accept another check from me, which I will call the bank and cancel first.

Look, you need to understand something - they did NOTHING illegal. By all means go down and raise hell and then deal with an arrest for trespassing, harassment and whatever else you do to upset them.

Is this really what you want for your family?

Not being able to pay for the treatments I need has put me at high risk of having to have surgery. This is bull ****. We can't afford this, and I shouldn't now be at higher risk of surgery.

Your financial situation isn't anyone else's issue. They made a mistake - and one which does not make them legally responsible for anything.

I'm not understanding how the dr's office did no wrong. Two parties make an agreement, one breeches it. If my check wasn't good on the agreed upon date, I'm in trouble for a bad check, for reneging on the agreement to pay on a certain date. If they cash it early, instead of the agreed on date, it's fine. That makes no sense.

Can you answer the question of "Why, if you cannot afford to pay for something, you should have it anyway and expect the provider to wait until you can pay"? Because that IS what you're are setting yourself up for.

You had a responsibility to tell the bank IN WRITING that you had written a post-dated check and that it should NOT be cashed before the selected date. You did not do this. I know you're upset and angry but please, don't let that cloud your judgment here.

[justalayman]

I'm going to get a copy of the check tomorrow and head down their in person and raise hell until they write me a check back and accept another check from me, which I will call the bank and cancel first.

what? why would you consider cancelling a check you wrote?

I didn't do that first time around because I thought it was illegal, fraud, to write a postdated check and have it stopped.

It can be, depending on your intent. With this new you, it sounds like you me be crossing the criminal line.

Not being able to pay for the treatments I need has put me at high risk of having to have surgery. This is bull ****. We can't afford this, and I shouldn't now be at higher risk of surgery.

it is still not the dentists fault. If you had notified your bank before you wrote the check, they could have not cashed it. Your failure does not make everybody else a bad guy.

I'm not understanding how the dr's office did no wrong. Two parties make an agreement, one breeches it.

they admitted they did it accidentally. What else do you want?
Hopefully not much because they are not liable to you for anything else.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by Postdated check

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

The dr.'s office approved a postdated check because my appointment had to be moved up almost a month (non-emergency). I wrote the check upon leaving, and found out today, six days after the appointment, that they already cashed the check. The check was dated for November 24th.

This early-cashing creates a huge problem. I now can't pay rent. It cuts deeply into my rent money.

What options do I have? Is the dr.'s office obligated to refund the payment for now? My apartment manager will NOT wait until my next payday. I will be evicted.

Postdated checks are not legal. They mean nothing. They can be cashed and used as legal tender the day they are written.

[Country Living]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

Postdated checks are not legal. They mean nothing. They can be cashed and used as legal tender the day they are written.

OG, did you mean to write "illegal"?

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

Postdated checks are not legal. They mean nothing. They can be cashed and used as legal tender the day they are written.

au contraire mon ami.

post dating does mean something, if the proper actions are taken with the issuers bank. Obviously, in this case, OP did not undertake such actions so UCC 4-401 would not apply here.


UCC 4-401 which refers to 3-403(a) for time line

§ 4-401. WHEN BANK MAY CHARGE CUSTOMER'S ACCOUNT.

(a) A bank may charge against the account of a customer an item that is properly payable from that account even though the charge creates an overdraft. An item is properly payable if it is authorized by the customer and is in accordance with any agreement between the customer and bank.
(b) A customer is not liable for the amount of an overdraft if the customer neither signed the item nor benefited from the proceeds of the item.
(c) A bank may charge against the account of a customer a check that is otherwise properly payable from the account, even though payment was made before the date of the check, unless the customer has given notice to the bank of the postdating describing the check with reasonable certainty. The notice is effective for the period stated in Section 4-403(b) for stop-payment orders, and must be received at such time and in such manner as to afford the bank a reasonable opportunity to act on it before the bank takes any action with respect to the check described in Section 4-303. If a bank charges against the account of a customer a check before the date stated in the notice of postdating, the bank is liable for damages for the loss resulting from its act. The loss may include damages for dishonor of subsequent items under Section 4-402.
(d) A bank that in good faith makes payment to a holder may charge the indicated account of its customer according to:
(1) the original terms of the altered item; or
(2) the terms of the completed item, even though the bank knows the item has been completed unless the bank has notice that the completion was improper.

§ 4-403. CUSTOMER'S RIGHT TO STOP PAYMENT; BURDEN OF PROOF OF LOSS.

(a) A customer or any person authorized to draw on the account if there is more than one person may stop payment of any item drawn on the customer's account or close the account by an order to the bank describing the item or account with reasonable certainty received at a time and in a manner that affords the bank a reasonable opportunity to act on it before any action by the bank with respect to the item described in Section 4-303. If the signature of more than one person is required to draw on an account, any of these persons may stop payment or close the account.
(b) A stop-payment order is effective for six months, but it lapses after 14 calendar days if the original order was oral and was not confirmed in writing within that period. A stop-payment order may be renewed for additional six-month periods by a writing given to the bank within a period during which the stop-payment order is effective.
(c) The burden of establishing the fact and amount of loss resulting from the payment of an item contrary to a stop-payment order or order to close an account is on the customer. The loss from payment of an item contrary to a stop-payment order may include damages for dishonor of subsequent items under Section 4-402.

In further research, I believe OP may actually have a cause of action based on UCC 3-104(a) as there are restrictions that allow an instrument to not be considered a negotiable instrument at time of issuance.

§ 3-104. NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENT.

(a) Except as provided in subsections (c) and (d), "negotiable instrument" means an unconditional promise or order to pay a fixed amount of money, with or without interest or other charges described in the promise or order, if it:
(1) is payable to bearer or to order at the time it is issued or first comes into possession of a holder;
(2) is payable on demand or at a definite time; and
(3) does not state any other undertaking or instruction by the person promising or ordering payment to do any act in addition to the payment of money, but the promise or order may contain (i) an undertaking or power to give, maintain, or protect collateral to secure payment, (ii) an authorization or power to the holder to confess judgment or realize on or dispose of collateral, or (iii) a waiver of the benefit of any law intended for the advantage or protection of an obligor.

since the check is not necessarily payable to the bearer upon possession of the payee (payor can legally demand date be honored by their bank), I question if the check is technically a negotiable instrument at the time of issuance and rather would be considered a promissory note. If so, the dentist violated the terms of the promissory note and as such would be liable for any damages.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by Country Living

OG, did you mean to write "illegal"?

They are not illegal though. However writing a post dated check means nothing. People do NOT have to hold a post dated check. Banks can CASH a post dated check. The numbers the bank looks at are the amount of the check (though if the numbered amount differs from the written amount that has it's own priority) and the account number. The date on the check means very little if nothing. Someone MIGHT hold a check to be nice but truthfully they don't have to. Commercial transactions law rules. It is a very involved law. Checks also do NOT expire. So if you have a check out there that you wrote 6 months ago, you better have the money in your account or place a stop payment against it.

ETA -- I understand UCC code. But that is NOT on the basis of the post dated check being post dated It is on the basis of the writer of said check putting the bank on notice. Post dating a check means nothing. the notice is the important part and she didn't do that. This poster said NOTHING about putting the bank on notice. Hence the check was a negotiable instrument and could be cashed by the bank that day regardless of the date on the check.