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CPS wont talk to me if i have a lawyer ...

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notarealname

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
NY State ...
CPS refused to speak with me if i had my lawyer present. My lawyer advised me not to talk with CPS without him. CPS finds that i abused and maltreated my child. I now have an indicated report in the states child abuse registry.

Requested a fair hearing to have the indicated report changed to unfounded. Fair hearing held judge advises my she can issue subpoenas. County (acting for cps) refuses to give me address for CPS worker (she no longer works there) to make her testify. Judge says she has no power to compel county for address disclosure. You can make ppl appear against their will but not allow me to have their address or in the alternative ... make the county make them available ??

No money for lawyer so im doing this fair hearing on my own. County has NO WITNESSES. Just the report. Judge enters report against my objections. Since in this fair hearing the report has already been entered i feel compelled to testify because it even says it on the paperwork ... THAT REMAINING SILENT CAN BE HELD AGAINST YOU .. and the judge says well you're gonna testify RIGHT ?

Judge uses my testimony to uphold the indicated cps report.

I feel since in NYS indicated and ONLY INDICATED cps reports can be used against you in custody cases (and i have a lying xwife who will use it against me) there is substantial due process violations ... as well as 6th amendment issues too. Supreme Court has already said parenting is a most protected right via us constitution.

Google isnt helping with caselaw.

Im no lawyer and i didnt even stay at a holiday inn express last night ... but a little caselaw help would be nice. I cant find any caselaw in either direction.
 


Proserpina

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
NY State ...
CPS refused to speak with me if i had my lawyer present. My lawyer advised me not to talk with CPS without him. CPS finds that i abused and maltreated my child. I now have an indicated report in the states child abuse registry.
This happened even though you had an attorney.

Requested a fair hearing to have the indicated report changed to unfounded. Fair hearing held judge advises my she can issue subpoenas. County (acting for cps) refuses to give me address for CPS worker (she no longer works there) to make her testify. Judge says she has no power to compel county for address disclosure. You can make ppl appear against their will but not allow me to have their address or in the alternative ... make the county make them available ??
Why aren't you asking your attorney these questions?

No money for lawyer so im doing this fair hearing on my own. County has NO WITNESSES. Just the report. Judge enters report against my objections. Since in this fair hearing the report has already been entered i feel compelled to testify because it even says it on the paperwork ... THAT REMAINING SILENT CAN BE HELD AGAINST YOU .. and the judge says well you're gonna testify RIGHT ?

Judge uses my testimony to uphold the indicated cps report.

I feel since in NYS indicated and ONLY INDICATED cps reports can be used against you in custody cases (and i have a lying xwife who will use it against me) there is substantial due process violations .. as well as 6th amendment issues too.
Where were your 6th violated?

Supreme Court has already said parenting is a most protected right via us constitution.
Only up to the point of neglect or abuse, yes.

Google isnt helping with caselaw.
Try Google scholar and westlaw.

Im no lawyer and i didnt even stay at a holiday inn express last night ... but a little caselaw help would be nice. I cant find any caselaw in either direction.


You said first you had an attorney - did you or didn't you?
 

notarealname

Junior Member
First off ... out of money i no longer have an attorney. yes you can have all the justice you want in america if you can afford it .. or google can help you find it.

Secondly ... ineptitude is rampant from the attorneys i have seen so if i did manage to get another one ... id like to be able to point them in the right direction. I have found none of the attorneys i have dealt with (my side .. her side ... judges ... magistrates ... prosecutors) seem to have a commanding gasp of whats going on ... Its all about its ok ... lets smooth out some feelings and get the best we can. With a cps report there is no plea bargain. Its either indicated or not.
I watched CPS back pedal like a son of a gun when a lawyer told them straight up they could do what they wanted but he sure enough was going to sue them. Id like to have somebody like that on my side but again ... i have no money. So for now its just me myself and i.
 

notarealname

Junior Member
Sounds to me like that means you did whatever you were accused of doing.
Irrelevant if i did or not. Rules should be followed and fairness applied. I mean as long as "they did it" we ought to be able to beat a confession out of them ... i mean ... as long as they did it right?

As a matter of fact what i did is SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED BY LAW.

But when an x-wife upset over child support decides to color you as paranoid, abusive, controlling, angry, verbally and physically abusive. All the while neglecting to inform CPS of her own mental issues which include "painting herself in the best light possible," anxiety, depression and other yet undiagnosed personality disorders along with a serous monetary reason to lie.
Yeah ... i again will state ... CPS ought to be required to do a full investigation before labeling anyone a child abuser and maltreater. <-- i dont think thats even a word lol
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
First off ... out of money i no longer have an attorney. yes you can have all the justice you want in america if you can afford it .. or google can help you find it.

Secondly ... ineptitude is rampant from the attorneys i have seen so if i did manage to get another one ... id like to be able to point them in the right direction. I have found none of the attorneys i have dealt with (my side .. her side ... judges ... magistrates ... prosecutors) seem to have a commanding gasp of whats going on ... Its all about its ok ... lets smooth out some feelings and get the best we can. With a cps report there is no plea bargain. Its either indicated or not.
I watched CPS back pedal like a son of a gun when a lawyer told them straight up they could do what they wanted but he sure enough was going to sue them. Id like to have somebody like that on my side but again ... i have no money. So for now its just me myself and i.

From what you posted elsewhere, you've shot yourself in the foot.

One exception provided for in the Social Services Law is limited to civil proceedings: an unfounded report is admissible "by the subject of the report where such subject . . . is a plaintiff or petitioner in a civil action or proceeding alleging the false reporting of child abuse or maltreatment," Soc Serv L § 422(5)(b)(ii). See Youngok Lim v Sangbom Lyi, 299 AD2d 763 (3d Dept 2002); J.H. v K.H., 7 Misc3d 1030(A) (Fam 2005).


You are the plaintiff requesting relief from the County - and because you have become the plaintiff, you've opened the door for an exemption to the hearsay rule.
 

notarealname

Junior Member
Where were your 6th violated?
Am i not allowed to have a lawyer present with any government interaction, especially since CPS workers can be called to testify as to whats said, and if i do does that mean CPS should ONLY go by what the other party says ... who by the way ... has a serious monetary interest to lie. Obviously if the lawyer is giving the run around CPS will complete the report withOUT an interview of all parties. But is it not in the best interest of the children, that who they say they are protecting anyways, to interview all parties ? Especially when mom wasn't even present.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Am i not allowed to have a lawyer present with any government interaction, especially since CPS workers can be called to testify as to whats said, and if i do does that mean CPS should ONLY go by what the other party says ... who by the way ... has a serious monetary interest to lie. Obviously if the lawyer is giving the run around CPS will complete the report withOUT an interview of all parties. But is it not in the best interest of the children, that who they say they are protecting anyways, to interview all parties ? Especially when mom wasn't even present.

The point is though, that you've filed for a fair hearing. It's not a continuation of the other case (which would have helped you because you'd still be the defendant), but an entirely new case - and again, you've basically handed them a silver platter.

Standby for OhioGal though - she might have more info for you.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
The point is though, that you've filed for a fair hearing. It's not a continuation of the other case (which would have helped you because you'd still be the defendant), but an entirely new case - and again, you've basically handed them a silver platter.

Standby for OhioGal though - she might have more info for you.
He is not entitled to counsel with EVERY interaction and others can say no to interacting with an attorney present. Especially if he is threatening a lawsuit. Other than that, I have seen so many red flags raised in this thread, that I will say no more at this time.
 

CJane

Senior Member
Um. The judge used HIS testimony to decide that the case was indicated. He as much as admitted here that he did "whatever he's accused of". He's not looking to have his innocence proclaimed, he's looking for a technicality to have the report thrown out.

Not gonna happen.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Um. The judge used HIS testimony to decide that the case was indicated. He as much as admitted here that he did "whatever he's accused of". He's not looking to have his innocence proclaimed, he's looking for a technicality to have the report thrown out.

Not gonna happen.
Thanks - saves me typing that.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Yeap, exactly.

He's filed a separate case (as opposed to appealing or doing something else about the original case), and the NY statute is clever little statute. The "unfounded" report would be inadmissible in most other civil matters...and what OP has done has effectively declared open season on himself because that report is now up for grabs.
 

notarealname

Junior Member
Firstly, CPS has an indicated report. The law allowing hearsay is in reference to an unfounded report. This is an indicated report. Its entirely different. As in it cannot be more different as they are opposite.

Secondly, tho the law in NYS allows you to discipline your child ... as in specifically spelled out in article 35 of nys penal law. There is an alternate cps registry to track indicated child abuse reports. I deny i abused and maltreated my child. I tried to slap his hand after he he slapped my hand off his leg. (allegedly) I missed his hand and hit his leg and left a red mark (allegedly). Without hearing my side cps listened to the x-wifes version (who wasnt there) and who im my opinion influenced my son to shade his story ... cps spoke with my children too.

According to case law i have read. A mom in nyc went bat**** and beat on her daughter after feeling exasperated because she wouldnt listen to her, wasnt following rules, and was stealing. Unfounded report.
Another mom beat her child with a shoe (a shoe ... really ??) and left a red mark. Unfounded.
My kid slaps me. He gets one single slap back on his hand but he moved so i hit leg instead. Indicated report.

I cant even challenge the report because the report is used as the only evidence against me and the county refuses to allow the writer of the report to be cross examined. Maybe she got recently fired for forging reports? I odnt know ... but from what i have been told she no longer works for the county. Hmmm ....
 

notarealname

Junior Member
He is not entitled to counsel with EVERY interaction and others can say no to interacting with an attorney present. Especially if he is threatening a lawsuit. Other than that, I have seen so many red flags raised in this thread, that I will say no more at this time.
Ok ... what are these red flags ? Am i not entitled to have them play fair and by the rules ?
What would you do in this exact situation ... exactly?

(START)
Im looking at it like this. If you are accused of a crime against a child. You lawyer isnt going to let you talk to cps ... who can be called ...as witness against you.

So CPS listens to the psycho exwife. files an indicated report. No arrestable charge is ever filed against you because the cops figure out that she is lying or embellishing or even figure out what you did id allowed by NYS penal law article 35. (or even the moms best friend is the cps worker (just throwing it out there as an example) and they are trying to get a indicated report against you so she can soak you for a **** ton of child support)

Now you go to have this indicated cps report changed to unfounded and the county says ... heres the report your honor. I object to the report. She accepts it anyways. Now in this proceeding your silence can be held against you. Since the report is entered into evidence against you and if you do not testify NO WAY you are going to win this ... so you testify.

Then the judge upholds the indicated report based upon your testimony ALONE. Hence ... im screwed

Tho ... i certainly wouldnt have testified if the report wasnt entered into evidence. Therefore i see the judge made a mistake of law and it will be overturned when i file my suit. ALTHOUGH i have found out whats fair, legal, and moral plays no basis in what happens in court.
I mean ... they should ask around. I dont just get blown off and accept a wrong doing without fighting. (END)
What might you do then ?
 

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