Legality of recording in a public building with an unconcealed camera...?

[Krowbar]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

I was curious to see if it is legal to enter into a public building like city hall or something, or even the court building (not in a trial room) just the hallway and record? Can you record a conversation that you are having with a person behind a counter or something. State employee of course. I know in Oregon only one party has to have consent of a lot of recorded communications and I know it is legal to record police in/on public property.

Just some thoughts.


Thank you!

 

[quincy]

Is this a real legal issue for you, or are you asking the question merely to sate your curiosity?

 

[Krowbar]

Real legal issue.

 

[stealth2]

Please provide details of your legal situation so that someone can adequately address it. Thank you.

 

[tranquility]

There are many issues to consider and, without the specific facts, it is tough to tell.

There is a jerk who posts his movies on the internet where he goes to a place and films people there. Classrooms, break rooms, libraries or other places in public and such; he just walks up to people and films them. If they ask what he is doing he mumbles some vague answer about filming and if asked why he just plays like he is an idiot and tells them it's OK or something. He thinks it is the most hilarious thing ever. Of course, people become uncomfortable and ask or tell him to stop and then he replies with some vague mumble.

It's like Candid Camera, but the "joke" continues much longer.

I don't know what I'd do to the person if he did it to me. But, my main fantasy turns to putting his camera up in places it was not designed to go. Is what he does illegal? It depends. But, even if it were legal it is so rude that one should get some insurance for the time he films the wrong person. If I were on the jury of that wrong person on the resulting battery case, I'd get some jury nullification going and get a not guilty verdict.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

I was curious to see if it is legal to enter into a public building like city hall or something, or even the court building (not in a trial room) just the hallway and record? Can you record a conversation that you are having with a person behind a counter or something. State employee of course. I know in Oregon only one party has to have consent of a lot of recorded communications and I know it is legal to record police in/on public property.

Just some thoughts.


Thank you!

Not all public buildings, in Oregon or elsewhere, will allow electronic devices inside the buildings. Your first step, then, will be to contact the public building in question to find out if cameras, recorders or other electronic devices are allowed through security screenings.

In the courtrooms themselves, you often must get permission from the presiding judge well in advance before you can enter the courtroom with a camera, cell phone or tape recording device. The request that is made should be a written one, and submitted enough in advance of the time you will need its use to allow for a response.

There are state statutes that regulate tape recordings in public places and during public meetings. In, say, city halls, open meetings can generally be recorded. But it can depend on the type of meeting and the type of equipment being used. Some recording equipment may be prohibited entirely (ie, highly sensitive microphones).

So that you do not run afoul of recording laws and any particular restrictions that may exist in whatever place you intend to record, you should check in advance at the specific public place.

As a note on recording without the knowledge or consent of those whom you are recording - when you are a participant in a conversation, you are on sturdier legal ground. Any surreptitious recording can lead to a greater risk of privacy invasion actions being filed against you (intrusion into seclusion), and you could find that conversations that you capture may not be allowed as evidence in a court proceeding. Using unconcealed recorders or cameras eliminates (for the most part) this problem.

Have you thought of reviewing your needs with an attorney in your area? A personal review of all of the specifics can give you a better idea if what you want to do can be done safely and legally.

 

[Krowbar]

I fired my worthless public defender and I went pro se on some burg and theft charges that I was charged with 3 weeks before my trial. I was found UNANIMOUSLY not guilty of all counts. I was going to the court house to file a tort with the civil clerk and serve the DA (well gave it to his assistant) for Malicious Prosecution. Since I'm going Pro Se, I wanted to have evidence that I filed these papers because this is a small community and the prosecution's office isn't known to have the greatest integrity. I took in my go-pro and just recorded me running around the building, NEVER in actual rooms where court is in session, just the hallways and in front of counters and such. There is no security in the building here. I think it's funny that there are cameras in the hallway with dangling microphones, too. No one cared that I had my go-pro and and running around this public building, until a manager lady with a horrible attitude came up and told me that I can't record or I'll get criminally charged. Small group of people in this building, and they knew I was filing a tort to potentially file a lawsuit. I was about to leave and then the police came to harass me. Charged me with ORS 165.540.

 

[Krowbar]

Yes my camera was dangling around my neck with a big red button flashing. I wasn't trying to hide it at all.

 

[tranquility]

I fired my worthless public defender and I went pro se on some burg and theft charges that I was charged with 3 weeks before my trial. I was found UNANIMOUSLY not guilty of all counts. I was going to the court house to file a tort with the civil clerk and serve the DA (well gave it to his assistant) for Malicious Prosecution. Since I'm going Pro Se, I wanted to have evidence that I filed these papers because this is a small community and the prosecution's office isn't known to have the greatest integrity. I took in my go-pro and just recorded me running around the building, NEVER in actual rooms where court is in session, just the hallways and in front of counters and such. There is no security in the building here. I think it's funny that there are cameras in the hallway with dangling microphones, too. No one cared that I had my go-pro and and running around this public building, until a manager lady with a horrible attitude came up and told me that I can't record or I'll get criminally charged. Small group of people in this building, and they knew I was filing a tort to potentially file a lawsuit. I was about to leave and then the police came to harass me. Charged me with 165.550.

Um..I'd withdraw the suit right now before they run up any expenses and sue you for malicious prosecution. A prosecutor has absolute immunity while performing prosecutorial functions as an advocate of the State. See also:
Buckley v. Fitzsimmons, 509 U.S. 259 (1993)
Lacey v. Maricopa Cnty., 649 F.3d 1118 (9th Cir. 2011)


As to the charge, was that a municipal code? The state removed that from the statutes in 1971.

 

[Krowbar]

Prosecutors are not immune. The State lacked probable cause for charging me for the crimes with which I was charged, and the State had an improper motive for charging me.

Sorry, statue is 165.540 (typo)

Thanks

 

[tranquility]

Prosecutors are not immune. The State lacked probable cause for charging me for the crimes with which I was charged, and the State had an improper motive for charging me.

Sorry, statue is 165.540 (typo)

Thanks

Prosecutors who advise police on issues are not immune. Prosecutors have an absolute immunity while performing prosecutorial functions for the state. Absolute immunity. Read the cases and search for the citations in other cases.

 

[tranquility]

As to the statute:

165.540¹
Obtaining contents of communications

(1) Except as otherwise provided in ORS 133.724 (Order for interception of communications) or 133.726 (Interception of oral communication without order) or subsections (2) to (7) of this section, a person may not:

(a) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a telecommunication or a radio communication to which the person is not a participant, by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, unless consent is given by at least one participant.

(b) Tamper with the wires, connections, boxes, fuses, circuits, lines or any other equipment or facilities of a telecommunication or radio communication company over which messages are transmitted, with the intent to obtain unlawfully the contents of a telecommunication or radio communication to which the person is not a participant.

(c) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a conversation by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, if not all participants in the conversation are specifically informed that their conversation is being obtained.

(d) Obtain the whole or any part of a conversation, telecommunication or radio communication from any person, while knowing or having good reason to believe that the conversation, telecommunication or radio communication was initially obtained in a manner prohibited by this section.

(e) Use or attempt to use, or divulge to others, any conversation, telecommunication or radio communication obtained by any means prohibited by this section.

(2)(a) The prohibitions in subsection (1)(a), (b) and (c) of this section do not apply to:

(A) Officers, employees or agents of a telecommunication or radio communication company who perform the acts prohibited by subsection (1)(a), (b) and (c) of this section for the purpose of construction, maintenance or conducting of their telecommunication or radio communication service, facilities or equipment.

(B) Public officials in charge of and at jails, police premises, sheriffs offices, Department of Corrections institutions and other penal or correctional institutions, except as to communications or conversations between an attorney and the client of the attorney.

(b) Officers, employees or agents of a telecommunication or radio communication company who obtain information under paragraph (a) of this subsection may not use or attempt to use, or divulge to others, the information except for the purpose of construction, maintenance, or conducting of their telecommunication or radio communication service, facilities or equipment.

(3) The prohibitions in subsection (1)(a), (b) or (c) of this section do not apply to subscribers or members of their family who perform the acts prohibited in subsection (1) of this section in their homes.

(4) The prohibitions in subsection (1)(a) of this section do not apply to the receiving or obtaining of the contents of any radio or television broadcast transmitted for the use of the general public.

(5) The prohibitions in subsection (1)(c) of this section do not apply to:

(a) A person who records a conversation during a felony that endangers human life;

(b) A person who, pursuant to ORS 133.400 (Recording of custodial interviews), records an interview conducted by a peace officer in a law enforcement facility;

(c) A law enforcement officer who is in uniform and displaying a badge and who is operating a vehicle-mounted video camera that records the scene in front of, within or surrounding a police vehicle, unless the officer has reasonable opportunity to inform participants in the conversation that the conversation is being obtained; or

(d) A law enforcement officer who, acting in the officers official capacity, deploys an Electro-Muscular Disruption Technology device that contains a built-in monitoring system capable of recording audio or video, for the duration of that deployment.

(6) The prohibitions in subsection (1)(c) of this section do not apply to persons who intercept or attempt to intercept with an unconcealed recording device the oral communications that are part of any of the following proceedings:

(a) Public or semipublic meetings such as hearings before governmental or quasi-governmental bodies, trials, press conferences, public speeches, rallies and sporting or other events;

(b) Regularly scheduled classes or similar educational activities in public or private institutions; or

(c) Private meetings or conferences if all others involved knew or reasonably should have known that the recording was being made.

(7) The prohibitions in subsection (1)(a), (c), (d) and (e) of this section do not apply to any:

(a) Radio communication that is transmitted by a station operating on an authorized frequency within the amateur or citizens bands; or

(b) Person who intercepts a radio communication that is transmitted by any governmental, law enforcement, civil defense or public safety communications system, including police and fire, readily accessible to the general public provided that the interception is not for purposes of illegal activity.

(8) Violation of subsection (1) or (2)(b) of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(9) As used in this section:

(a) Electro-Muscular Disruption Technology device means a device that uses a high-voltage, low power charge of electricity to induce involuntary muscle contractions intended to cause temporary incapacitation. Electro-Muscular Disruption Technology device includes devices commonly known as tasers.

(b) Law enforcement officer has the meaning given that term in ORS 133.726 (Interception of oral communication without order). [1955 c.675 §§2,7; 1959 c.681 §2; 1961 c.460 §1; 1979 c.744 §9; 1983 c.693 §1; 1983 c.740 §35; 1983 c.824 §1; 1987 c.320 §87; 1989 c.983 §14a; 1989 c.1078 §1; 2001 c.104 §54; 2001 c.385 §4; 2003 c.14 §62; 2007 c.879 §1; 2009 c.488 §2]

If you recorded any conversations, you might very well be guilty as none of the exceptions seem to apply.

 

[Krowbar]

Look at 6 (a) that is my defense. It's a public place and I was meeting with the civil clerk to file a tort. I don't think the law was intended to be so ridiculous.

1 (c) means it is illegal to go to the beach and film you kids playing in the surf if someone walks up and starts chatting with you. I just don't get why it would be illegal to video tape in a public building where there are NO signs saying otherwise. Oregon is a one party consent state. The camera wasn't concealed with a big red light flashing on it. People should reasonably believe that they are being recorded if there's a camera around my neck and the light is blinking. If you know go-pros, too, they have a huge red light in front, on the bottom and top of the device.

 

[tranquility]

(6) The prohibitions in subsection (1)(c) of this section do not apply to persons who intercept or attempt to intercept with an unconcealed recording device the oral communications that are part of any of the following proceedings:

(a) Public or semipublic meetings such as hearings before governmental or quasi-governmental bodies, trials, press conferences, public speeches, rallies and sporting or other events;

You were NOT recording the meeting, but the people outside. In fact, you took great pains to not record the trials. (As this would have been prevented by the judge or local rule without permission.) It was not a "part" of the proceedings.

Reading edit:
As to Oregon being a one party consent state, the very statute here does not deal with consent:

(c) Obtain or attempt to obtain the whole or any part of a conversation by means of any device, contrivance, machine or apparatus, whether electrical, mechanical, manual or otherwise, if not all participants in the conversation are specifically informed that their conversation is being obtained.

 

[Krowbar]

My other issue is that throughout the building there are cameras with completely visible microphones and no one informed me that I was being recorded. Right above my head at the counter where I was "conversing" with the lady that complained was a camera like this. She should have known that the conversation was being recorded because "they" were being recorded with their own equipment.