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Privacy vs Residency Disclosure

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pbminor

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I live in California. The city I live in has a municipal utility that has some very unfair practices.
I was just told that all adults in your home must be on your utility contract. What business is it of their's who lives in my home? What right do they have to make every adult in the home liable for the bill? It's my home. I own it. The responsibility for the bills belong to me. Why should I be required to report other adults in my home to anyone? What about my right to privacy?

Also, if your electricity is cut off, they will abate you from your home under the guise of it being unsafe, and by using building codes incorrectly. Specifically, 702.1 of the uniform housing code that states all dwellings must be connected to an electric source if one is available.
Does anyone know a website that might explain either of these situations?
The city I live in has issues with low income people. They often enact ordinances that affect most only the poor.
Thanks for any help.
 
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Hot Topic

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I live in California. The city I live in has a municipal utility that has some very unfair practices.
I was just told that all adults in your home must be on your utility contract. What business is it of their's who lives in my home? What right do they have to make every adult in the home liable for the bill? It's my home. I own it. The responsibility for the bills belong to me. Why should I be required to report other adults in my home to anyone? What about my right to privacy?

Also, if your electricity is cut off, they will abate you from your home under the guise of it being unsafe, and by using building codes incorrectly. Specifically, 702.1 of the uniform housing code that states all dwellings must be connected to an electric source if one is available.
Does anyone know a website that might explain either of these situations?
The city I live in has issues with low income people. They often enact ordinances that affect most only the poor.
Thanks for any help.
What did the municipal utility say when you called about why you have to let the city know who lives in your home? What's your proof that they make every adult in the home liable for the bill?

The term "unfair" is irrelevant. An action is either legal or it isn't.

The statement that the city you live in has "issues" with low income people is your opinion, just as it's your opinion that "they" often enact ordinances that mostly affect low income people.

I don't think they're out to get you.
 
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sandyclaus

Senior Member
Let me take a stab in the dark here and say that OP probably is taking issue because they are a low-income resident, probably taking advantage of a low-income utility discount program.

If that is the case, then the utility company IS entitled to know about all adults living within the household, because the total household income is what qualifies or disqualifies someone from receiving that service discount. That includes any/all adults in the household (working or not) that benefit from the discounted utility services, whether or not they pay for them. The concept is that if these additional occupants have the ability to pay the regular price for or towards the services, then the primary accountholder is NOT entitled to a discounted prices for those same services.

I'll just bet this is the issue. Otherwise, the utility company shouldn't or wouldn't normally care WHO lives in the property, especially if the bills are getting paid.
 

Hot Topic

Senior Member
Sandyclaus, you hit the nail on the head.

The paranoia displayed by the OP was a clue that something was going on that the OP didn't want anyone taking a closer look at.

Probably didn't want to ask the utility company too many questions about the account because the company would probably become suspicious and investigate accordingly.
 

pbminor

Member
What did the municipal utility say when you called about why you have to let the city know who lives in your home? What's your proof that they make every adult in the home liable for the bill?

The term "unfair" is irrelevant. An action is either legal or it isn't.

The statement that the city you live in has "issues" with low income people is your opinion, just as it's your opinion that "they" often enact ordinances that mostly affect low income people.

I don't think they're out to get you.
Here's what I know of their requirements. I was calling to help a friend. She was told that all adults in the home must be on the utility bill. I recalled a few years back when my nephew had moved in with his girlfriend. A month later she moved out leaving a few months of unpaid utilities. My nephew took over the rental contract from the landlord. The utility company said he was liable for his g/f's past bill because he was living there. He moved because there was no way he was going to pay her bill when he had lived there less than a month. He found a new apt. and could not rent it because he had already given his info to the utility company and they have attached the bill to his name. They would not turn on his utilities until the past bill was paid. He now cannot rent a unit in this town until he pays a $400+ bill belonging to his ex girlfriend.
After puttin this all together in disbelief, I called the utility company and was told their policy. All adults in the home MUST be on the bill.


Let me take a stab in the dark here and say that OP probably is taking issue because they are a low-income resident, probably taking advantage of a low-income utility discount program.

If that is the case, then the utility company IS entitled to know about all adults living within the household, because the total household income is what qualifies or disqualifies someone from receiving that service discount. That includes any/all adults in the household (working or not) that benefit from the discounted utility services, whether or not they pay for them. The concept is that if these additional occupants have the ability to pay the regular price for or towards the services, then the primary accountholder is NOT entitled to a discounted prices for those same services.

I'll just bet this is the issue. Otherwise, the utility company shouldn't or wouldn't normally care WHO lives in the property, especially if the bills are getting paid.
Wrong, not the issue. I'm not at all low income. However, I do, often, help the disadvantage. I do understand that, if a person is applying for any welfare/income based program, they must list all persons in the home. I spent more than ten years of my career working for the welfare dept.
I agree with you. The utility company shouldn't care who lives in your home, but they do. Is it legal?

Sandyclaus, you hit the nail on the head.

The paranoia displayed by the OP was a clue that something was going on that the OP didn't want anyone taking a closer look at.

Probably didn't want to ask the utility company too many questions about the account because the company would probably become suspicious and investigate accordingly.
Again, not the situation. And no paranoia going on here. I do have a tendency to help out people in need and therefore see the things that are happening.
Here's a few examples of how our city owned utilities has rules that seem to affect the poor more so than those who have money.:
New utility service requires an 800 Trans Union FICO credit score or you're required to put a cash deposit equivalent to two months of the highest service costs at that address.
All adults must be on the bill. They use the worse credit of the bunch to determine deposit. If any of the adults have an unpaid past bill, no one gets utilities.
If you are one day late paying your bill, you get a $16 late fee. And here's a real weird connection to that. About twenty years ago, when they started this extreme late fee, they also rearranged their payment due date schedules. I was working at the local welfare office at the time. Over the matter of a few months, I started noticing that my clients were complaining that their util bill due date had been changed to the 28th so now they have to pay a late fee every month. True, they could call and have the date changed, but not if you've paid late recently.
And now the big one. If you're utilities are shut off, the city owned utility company puts you on a list that they send over to the building inspectors. The inspectors go out and red tag the home saying it's unfit to live in. They also send a notice to the landlord threatening him with a $1000 a day fine. Threatening the landlord causes the tenant to be evicted long before they have a chance to appeal the red tag in court. In effect, denying them their day in court.
Geez, I'm begining to think this forum is more for ranking on people than helping them.
 
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pbminor

Member
in a nutshell

Here are some of the rules that our city owned utility uses:

$16 late fee for one day late.

800 credit score or pay a huge deposit.

All adults in the home must be on the contract.

Hold people liable who were not on the contract.

If a cosigned acct. goes bad. The cosigner gets the bill attached to their own utility bill. If not paid immediately, the cosigner gets their utilities shut off.

Abate tenant for disconnected electricity.

Contacts bldg. inspectors w/list of disconnects (for abatement)

Intimidates landlords for eviction so tenant can't appeal red tag abatement.

Do you know of any other utility companies that have these rules? Any of these rules, even one?
IMO, this is nothing short of extortion under color of authority. The city is saying pay us or get out. It doesn't matter if you want our services or not, it doesn't matter that you're legally liable or not, you either pay us or you can't live in our town.
But then I'm not an attorney.
 
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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I was just told that all adults in your home must be on your utility contract.
The application on their website asks for all residents that are listed on the rental agreement. Not "all adults"

ETA: he deposit is based on 2x the estimated monthly usage. It will be credited back after 12 months of on-time payments. Furthermore, it can be paid over a 4 month period.
 

pbminor

Member
The application on their website asks for all residents that are listed on the rental agreement. Not "all adults"

ETA: he deposit is based on 2x the estimated monthly usage. It will be credited back after 12 months of on-time payments. Furthermore, it can be paid over a 4 month period.
Thank you for checking. I have been to the website many times. A while back, our city council made a committee to address the public's concerns with REU's policies. I attended several months worth of meetings. A few changes were made. After it all died down, the city came up with reasons to take the changes back.
As for the requirement to have all on the rental agreement listed, I own my home. I'm not on any rental agreement. When I called to clarify their rule, it was confirmed. All adults in the home MUST be on the utility contract. I told them I own my home and have lived here more than twenty years. I told them over that time I have had many different adults in my home. They tried to collect the information immediately on any current adults in the home. I told them no way and hung up.
 

sandyclaus

Senior Member
IF what OP is saying is true, then it sounds like certain people within that utility company are essentially taking a policy and turning it into a means to collect against unpaid utility bills that previous accountholders may have skipped out on.

I can see this practice being address-specific (as in, the person who skipped still lives at a particular address, but put the account into another occupant's name to try to avoid paying an outstanding balance). I can even see it applying to family members living in the same household (a family member moves to avoid paying, and moves somewhere else, and the company is trying to track them down). But I don't see a requirement to furnish the names of ALL ADULTS in a particular household as relevant or legal unless it specifically relates to information they already have, such as being able to trace a particular accountholder to a specific address, and then asking the person at that address who holds the current account if the person in question lives there.

If the utility company has this kind of issue with their own skip tracing of defaulted accountholders, it should not fall upon the new accountholders to disclose the identities of the adults in their household in order to remain a customer. I would tend to agree that this practice does violate privacy concerns and is an inappropriate practice to try to get around the law where it relates to debt collections.

This may be an issue to bring up to the California Public Utilities Commission, as they regulate the industry and their practices.
 

pbminor

Member
IF what OP is saying is true, then it sounds like certain people within that utility company are essentially taking a policy and turning it into a means to collect against unpaid utility bills that previous accountholders may have skipped out on.

I can see this practice being address-specific (as in, the person who skipped still lives at a particular address, but put the account into another occupant's name to try to avoid paying an outstanding balance). I can even see it applying to family members living in the same household (a family member moves to avoid paying, and moves somewhere else, and the company is trying to track them down). But I don't see a requirement to furnish the names of ALL ADULTS in a particular household as relevant or legal unless it specifically relates to information they already have, such as being able to trace a particular accountholder to a specific address, and then asking the person at that address who holds the current account if the person in question lives there.

If the utility company has this kind of issue with their own skip tracing of defaulted accountholders, it should not fall upon the new accountholders to disclose the identities of the adults in their household in order to remain a customer. I would tend to agree that this practice does violate privacy concerns and is an inappropriate practice to try to get around the law where it relates to debt collections.

This may be an issue to bring up to the California Public Utilities Commission, as they regulate the industry and their practices.
I'm sure the intent of this policy was just as you say, to prevent people from switching an account over to avoid paying. However, our utility company takes it to the extreme by making a current customer liable for any bills of the adults that may move into or out of their home.
I did call the util. company today to get a final clarification. They insisted that all who are on a rental agreement, must be on the utility bill. After a somewhat lengthy discussion, and when confronting them with the fact that I own my home and it's none of their business who lives here, they did agree that nothing could be done if I refuse to include all adults on my bill. But they still insisted that those who rent must follow this policy. This specific issue is something that does not affect me personally, however many of the people I help out are renters.
As for the California PUC, I've been told they do not govern a municipal utility company. I was told that any issues must be handle through our cities chain of command. We took several issues to our board of supervisors. Nothing was accomplished. I have heard that issues were brought up to our Grand Jury back in 2004. The Grand Jury made a recommendation. The city utilities didn't follow them.
 

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