Can subcontractor put lien on condo, even when no work was authorized in writing?

[tpro123]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MICHIGAN

I own a condo, that is being repaired from insurance funds due to pipe busting (previous owner), and the entire unit needing to be completely gutted.

With that being said, while the walls were open (no drywall), I pulled the 14-2 wiring, and installed 14-3 wiring for a fan. It has passed city inspection, although no additional permits were pulled. Now, the electrician on the job (sub-contracted by the contractor) wants to charge me for a "repair" and "inspection" fee, even though I never authorized him to make any "repairs" or the "inspection," albiet small (less than $200).

He threatened to place a lien on the property, including his time (I'm assuming travel and over inflated electrician hourly rate). If they were even able to record the lien, could they charge for their time/expenses, or only what is owed? From my understanding, only what is owed can be included in the lien.

Furthermore, Michigan's Construction Lien Act states:
(d) A construction lien shall not arise or attach to a condominium unit for work performed on the common elements, if the work was not contracted for by the developer or the association of coowners of condominium units.

The electrical is deemed common elements in the by-laws. Does that mean a construction lien cannot be placed since it was not contracted by the developer nor co-owners?

Finally, he also sent me a waiver to sign stating that no inspection was conducted and all responsibilities are returned to me. This made me think.. wait a minute, why is he trying to charge for a repair/inspection and then force me to sign a waiver acknowledging that there was no inspection made? Can he even force me to sign a waiver? If I do not sign the waiver, can he place a lien on the property or harm me in anyway?

Thanks again!

 

[justalayman]

I doubt you could legally install any electrical equipment in the unit. Michigan has a fairly stringent licensing requirement. Unless a building is exempted due to an owner being allowed to do the work, a licensed electrician is required to do the work. That homeowner exemption does not typically (as in; I don't know any area that does extend the exemption) to the owner of a multi-unit type building (apartment, condo, anything else where there would be multiple unrelated residents or owners).

Now, the electrician on the job (sub-contracted by the contractor) wants to charge me for a "repair" and "inspection" fee, even though I never authorized him to make any "repairs" or the "inspection," albiet small (less than $200).

sorry, you were not allowed to work under his permit and as he is a licensed electrician, any electrical work is his liability. He has every right to charge you for the fees. Heck, you are lucky all of your work didn't simply get ripped out.

The electrical is deemed common elements in the by-laws. Does that mean a construction lien cannot be placed since it was not contracted by the developer nor co-owners?

I do not believe the electrical specific to your unit would be common elements. Generally (and I admit I have not researched MI law), anything that serves only a single unit is not a common element. Your electrical service serves only your unit. If it was a common element, you would not have the right to do what you did, even with a permit as it is HOA responsibility. Only the HOA could accept and approve plans for any work. The owner would not have the right to do anything regarding the electrical if it was a common element.

He threatened to place a lien on the property, including his time (I'm assuming travel and over inflated electrician hourly rate). If they were even able to record the lien, could they charge for their time/expenses, or only what is owed? From my understanding, only what is owed can be included in the lien.

what is owed would include his travel time specific to this work. That is billable time.

and over inflated rate? Do you really want to go there?

 

[tpro123]

I doubt you could legally install any electrical equipment in the unit. Michigan has a fairly stringent licensing requirement. Unless a building is exempted due to an owner being allowed to do the work, a licensed electrician is required to do the work. That homeowner exemption does not typically (as in; I don't know any area that does extend the exemption) to the owner of a multi-unit type building (apartment, condo, anything else where there would be multiple unrelated residents or owners).

sorry, you were not allowed to work under his permit and as he is a licensed electrician, any electrical work is his liability. He has every right to charge you for the fees. Heck, you are lucky all of your work didn't simply get ripped out.

I do not believe the electrical specific to your unit would be common elements. Generally (and I admit I have not researched MI law), anything that serves only a single unit is not a common element. Your electrical service serves only your unit. If it was a common element, you would not have the right to do what you did, even with a permit as it is HOA responsibility. Only the HOA could accept and approve plans for any work. The owner would not have the right to do anything regarding the electrical if it was a common element.



what is owed would include his travel time specific to this work. That is billable time.

and over inflated rate? Do you really want to go there?

Work was done, city inspected it, and permit was closed. Can he even come back and pull the wiring out? Seems like he needs owner permission, and which I wouldn't grant him.

Doesn't this mean that he should take responsibility for it, since he had the opportunity to rip it out, and the fact that he didn't? I'm not licensed, and I'm sure that some of the people on his crew isn't either; they are working under his. I know that I do not have the automatic right to work under his license, but because he accepted the work (similar to accepting work from his unlicensed crew), doesn't that mean he should take responsibility?

Finally, if I do pay the bill, but do not sign the waiver, can he still put a lien on the property? If so, how? There is no dollar amount in question or unpaid amount. Seems that he wants me to perform a certain action (sign the waiver) that is not related to any dollar amount.

Thanks again!

 

[justalayman]

=tpro123;2850246]Work was done, city inspected it, and permit was closed. Can he even come back and pull the wiring out? Seems like he needs owner permission, and which I wouldn't grant him.

and that is why his lien is valid and you would lose in court.

Doesn't this mean that he should take responsibility for it, since he had the opportunity to rip it out, and the fact that he didn't?

No but I suspect if he calls the inspector and tells him he learned of the work that was installed by a non-licensed person, the inspector is likely to come back and demand the removal of your installation. and yes, I have seen inspectors demand drywall be removed (as well as other demolition) to just inspect work. I have no doubts an inspector would demand whatever it took to inspect it or cause its removal if he believed it was warranted.

I'm not licensed, and I'm sure that some of the people on his crew isn't either; they are working under his.

each individual must have either a journeyman's license or an apprentice license. On top of that, the company must have an electrical contractors license. If the company did not have an electrical contractors license and each individual did not have their appropriate licensing, you had the right to contact the inspector, the department of licensing, or actually, even the police (although I suspect the police would be hesitant to do anything) and have them stopped.

I knew a guy at one time that was an electrician for 30 years. His main work was in Indiana near the stateline. He never obtained a journeyman's license but did have an apprentice license. That meant he could not work a job without a journeyman on the job but he could still work on a job. The inspector caught him a couple times working by himself. The last time he got caught, the inspector told him: if I catch you again working illegally, I will have you arrested.

and he could have and would have. Michigan takes their licensing pretty seriously.

Finally, if I do pay the bill, but do not sign the waiver, can he still put a lien on the property?

If you pay the bill, there should be no waiver. If you don't pay the bill, I do not think the waiver will do him any good and if I was you, I still wouldn't sign it (although that is likely to get the lien placed or you sued)

There is no dollar amount in question or unpaid amount. Seems that he wants me to perform a certain action (sign the waiver) that is not related to any dollar amount.

He cannot relieve himself of any possible liability for the work. He can try but I doubt it would fly in court if there was ever an issue. Personally, I would not sign the waiver though. Most of the work is his and he should be responsible for it regardless of anything else.

 

[John_DFW]

Do you have a signed contract with the main contractor, and does it encompass electrical work?

Who pulled the permit? you or the sub contractor electrician?

You could negotiate the price, but I see no obligation or reason to sign the waiver.

 

[tpro123]

Do you have a signed contract with the main contractor, and does it encompass electrical work?

I have no contract signed with the main contractor. The insurance funds went to the HOA manager who used their contractor who subcontracted the job to another contractor. This sub-contractor had sub-contracted the job to an electrical company. All I signed was the permit. The property was owned by an international company, and to get it fixed, it would've taken months to even get a response, let alone sign the permit to start the work. I closed, and then signed the permit as the owner.

Who pulled the permit? you or the sub contractor electrician?

They pulled all the permits. It has the sub-contractor's name on it. I don't know if a separate one was pulled for only the electrical since other work was being done to it.

You could negotiate the price, but I see no obligation or reason to sign the waiver.

I successfully negotiated the price down, but if I do not sign the waiver, can he come back and cut open the drywall to pull out the electrical and "redo" the work? That is going to be ALOT more money.

Also, because I am receiving the work at a discounted price, does that have any bearing on implying that I accepted the waiver?

Thanks again!

 

[justalayman]

Every where I am aware of in Michigan, there is a separate permit for electrical work.

I successfully negotiated the price down, but if I do not sign the waiver, can he come back and cut open the drywall to pull out the electrical and "redo" the work? That is going to be ALOT more money.

First, the electrician has no right to demo anything without permission from whomever is in control of the unit (I'm not clear on all the situation). The inspector can order it demo'd in order to inspect or red tag the installation if he has reason to. If he red tags it, the CO (certificate of occupancy) will be issued so it is a matter of let him see the work or don't plan on living there.

I still don't get this waiver crap. There is and never was a reason for it. Beyond that, if you pay for the work, he has no reason to do anything other than accept it and say; "have a nice day" and be on his way. No lien, no waiver, no additional inspection, nothing.

Unless there is a statement or contract signed that says by paying this fee you also accept the waiver, there is no connection.