elevator noise into my condo unit (california)

[ytg]

California.

We live in a 2 bd condo in Woodland Hills, California which we purchased 2 years ago. We have had an issue with elevator noise coming in to our unit. Our unit is on the first floor and the engine room is below our bathroom.
Each time the elevator is active (we live in 100+ unit with 1 elevator) the noise comes into our unit. We are constantly woken up in the middle of the night, have trouble falling a sleep, and difficulties staying a sleep in the morning. It has created an unbearable living situation.

When we purchased the condo, we were one of the first ones to have moved into our building. (It is a 1200 unit apartment to condo conversion) We didn't hear the elevator noise until months after people began to move in.

Here is an audio of the sounds from my bedroom and also a video from the engine room:
1. Audio from bedroom (begins at 0:07) - Audio from Bedroom (Building 14 Unit 124) - YouTube
2. Audio/Video from engine room - Building 14 Elevator - Engine Room Noise - YouTube

We have addressed the problem to the HOA and have even had the elevator technician (contracted by the hoa) come out and assess the issue. He came into our unit and said the noise should not be coming into our unit and has proposed a suggestion. I have since then asked to view the proposal and the amount which they have refused for us to see. The amount is less than $1500.00 but it is not a guarantee according to the elevator technician.

They have since refused to correct the problem twice this year because the elevator was working and we were the only ones who have complained. We have no neighbors next to us and the people above us do not hear the noise from the engine room.

Because the HOA won't do anything, my next step is to go to the developers who sold us our unit but we are trying to find out if we even have any power to pursue this. (for example: undisclosed mechanical noise or owners easement of enjoyment)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

 

[FlyingRon]

Unless the elevator noise is due to a malfunction, the fact that you moved into an unit near the noisy elevator is lack of due diligence on your part and I fail to see how either the developer nor the condo association themselves is liable for any of this. You can propose paying for the noise mitigation (possibly sharing it with other affected units), but even that they don't have to allow.

 

[ytg]

strict disclosure rule in california.

I do know that in California there are very strict rules about disclosing everything to a potential homeowner. This is the angle that I was looking into.

We were one of the first ones to move into this building and it was not until several months later when people began purchasing other units in my building. We didn't notice the elevator engine for several months.

The elevator technician did say that the noise should not be coming into our unit. Therefore the proposal was created to fix the issue. The elevator is functioning (moving up and down). I assume this is similar to a common problem with heater / AC unit noise from the roof - yes it works but it is creating noise and vibration into your unit.

 

[justalayman]

It's hard to determine the volume of the sound when listening to the youtube videos. Whether it is actually all that objectionable would have to be determined by an onsite review.

the recording in the actual motor room appears to be of the unit coming down the shaft as I don't really hear any motors operating. With a hydraulic unit such as you have, when the car goes up, the motor runs and pumps hydraulic oil into a cylinder in the shaft (under the car) but when it lowers, all it has to do is open a valve and release the pressure holding the car up.

Has anybody talked to the elevator repairman about slowing the descent of the car? That would reduce the volume of oil returning to the tank and as such, should reduce the noise level created.

Other than that, there really isn't a whole lot you can do about the sound short of insulating the walls. I am not familiar with laws regarding elevator rooms in California but if they are as strict in California as they are in other states, they are not going to allow any such material inside of the room. All attempts to insulate the room would have to be on the exterior of the motor room walls. Since the motor room is below your bathroom, that would make it difficult to do anything to reduce the sound level.

as to the noise being an undisclosed defect: maybe. Depending on how loud the sound is and whether it would be considered disruptive to a reasonable person may allow for a claim of an undisclosed defect.

I wouldn't bet on fighting it in such a manner but in reality, it would appear to be about your only avenue.

While I respect ron's opinion greatly, I disagree with the argument of failure to practice due diligence. If the sound was not common during the purchase process, it would not be possible to be made aware of the sound level at that time and as such, a decision could not be made with that knowledge. Expecting a person to investigate every possibility of noise sources is not a requirement to protect a person. While a person purchasing a unit near an airport is responsible for investigating the possibility of noise prior to purchase, unless you are aware of the physical layout of the building and realized your unit was directly above the elevator mechanical room, it would not be reasonable to expect a person to inquire as to whether the unit was subject to undue noise created by the elevator equipment.

 

[You Are Guilty]

While I respect ron's opinion greatly, I disagree with the argument of failure to practice due diligence. If the sound was not common during the purchase process, it would not be possible to be made aware of the sound level at that time and as such, a decision could not be made with that knowledge. Expecting a person to investigate every possibility of noise sources is not a requirement to protect a person. While a person purchasing a unit near an airport is responsible for investigating the possibility of noise prior to purchase, unless you are aware of the physical layout of the building and realized your unit was directly above the elevator mechanical room, it would not be reasonable to expect a person to inquire as to whether the unit was subject to undue noise created by the elevator equipment.

Can't the developer make the same argument? If the person actually moving into the unit didn't notice the noise, how in the world would the developer know about it then?

 

[FlyingRon]

I do know that in California there are very strict rules about disclosing everything to a potential homeowner. This is the angle that I was looking into.

You would have to show that they were aware that there is a defect and failed to make the disclosure. So you have two issues to fight there: 1. That the noise is in fact a material defect and 2. they were aware of it.
That's going to be dicey.

We were one of the first ones to move into this building and it was not until several months later when people began purchasing other units in my building. We didn't notice the elevator engine for several months.

Immaterial.

The elevator technician did say that the noise should not be coming into our unit. Therefore the proposal was created to fix the issue. The elevator is functioning (moving up and down). I assume this is similar to a common problem with heater / AC unit noise from the roof - yes it works but it is creating noise and vibration into your unit.

That doesn't mean anything. The question is if the unit is functioning properly and installed properly. If you can show the latter, opinion of some technology that "you ought not to hear it" is too vague to be useful. You have to show that either the thing is not functioning right (a bearing is going or something) or that the codes or installation instructions for the unit were not followed.

The fact that the thing is noisy and your unit happens to be close is NOT in itself actionable.

 

[justalayman]

Can't the developer make the same argument? If the person actually moving into the unit didn't notice the noise, how in the world would the developer know about it then?

Yes, they can make the claim and whether the developer/owner should have been aware of the noise is something a court would have to decide, if it got that far. I was merely addressing the fact that the OP does have a reasonable argument that they were not exposed to the sound and did not have a duty to investigate every possibility unless there was some reason to suspect a problem.

 

[festival]

As I understand it, your condo is almost unlivable and the property value is reduced due to the operation of the elevator in its current condition. It is difficult to imagine that the elevator is functioning properly.

First read everything in your condo governing documents. In my condo docs it states: "No activity shall be allowed which unduly interferes with the peaceful possession and use of the Property by the Owners..." See what your docs state. This "activity" usually means activity of the occupants (such as speeding in the parking lots), but it may equally apply to the Owners Association operating the elevator. See what the governing documents say about noise, too.

What are the stated duties of the association to maintain the common elements of the property, especially considering this level of disturbance? There must be duties that support your position.

Is there a warranty on construction and defects from the builder (from the time you first reported a problem)? This is in my governing docs for one year.

Ask the board of directors in writing to see the elevator technician's proposal. The board is not supposed to be doing things in secret. Ask to see the minutes of the board meeting and any attachments (the proposal) or documents in their possession.

Call the technician yourself and ask for an explanation of the situation. If it is defective, then it has to be fixed. Elevators are not supposed to render significant portions of a building unusable. Find out the brand of the elevator and call the manufacturer for their opinion. Ask the manufacturer if their elevators are so loud that you can't sleep at night.

I would also investigate how the apartment management dealt with this apartment before conversion. Did they rent the unit for less or deal with it differently? Contact the manager and previous tenants. Contact the old maintenance staff.

At some point in the future, talk to your neighbors about how the board is acting since it affects property values. Talk to the developers since they need satisfied customers. Make some noise about it.

Consider fixing it yourself for $1500.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I would investigate the installation of sound deadening material in your unit or the elevator shaft.

 

[xylene]

Has anybody talked to the elevator repairman about slowing the descent of the car? That would reduce the volume of oil returning to the tank and as such, should reduce the noise level created.

That would win some popularity contests.

 

[Nazhak]

I have the same issues

Hi All,

I have been researching the same issue and wanted to get your help and see if you found any laws or what you ended up doing to get this issue fixed. My Condo has the same issue, I feel like you are in the same boat as me. I am the only unit that hears it and I was not aware of it either. It is horrible to wake up to it.

Please anything will be a great help.

N