Floor From Hell...Help!

[moondancer]

What is the name of your state? Florida

Our property manager allowed my upstairs neighbor to put hardwood floors in her condo. The problem is he approved an underlayment called "Quietwalk" that is made to be used on 8 in concrete floors. We don't have concrete floors upstairs....we have 3/4 in plywood! You can only imagine the unbelievable noise that we have to put up with.

We have lived here for nearly 8 years with no problems. Our former neighbors had carpet and pad.

Our condo docs say that you must have provisions for soundproofing. The floor experts tell us that it is impossible to soundproof a thin plywood floor when putting wood over it.

Our property manager told us that he contacted the Homeowners Association Attorney and was told that our Condo docs are too "vague" so nothing can be done to fix the floor. We found out by calling (I know I wasn't supposed to) the Attorney that he was never contacted and had no idea that we didn't have concrete floors.

We don't know what to do at this point. Can't afford a court case. The Board members won't do anything...they say it would cost them too much money. They blame the lady upstairs even though the property manager and the Board approved it. Any advice would be great!What is the name of your state?

[justalayman]

Quietwalk is actually an underlayment for harwood floors rather than the concrete you mention

from their website:

Quiet Walk™ underlayment is the hallmark product of MP Global Products . Although it was originally created specifically for laminate flooring, it now is also used under some nail-down and floating hardwood products.

[url]http://www.mpglobalproducts.com/quietwalk/1intro.html[/url]

it is tested and listed as a sound insulator.

I do not know what the requirements or restrictions in your rules that are germane but I find it hard to believe that wood flooring would not be allowed.

What type of ceiling do you have?

[moondancer]

We have called the manufacturer of Quiet Walk and was told that it has never been tested on plywood only concrete subfloors. It states that plainly on their advertising and makes no claims for soundproofing. Quietwalk consists of 1/8 in thick (about the thickness of a nickel) recycled materials...I have a sample and it appears to be paper.
Our ceiling is 5/8 drywall. I suppose hardwood floors would be allowed if they were able to be soundproofed although it doesn't mention hardwood floors. As of now, my neighbor sounds like a rampaging elephant! We have looked into the possiblility of having foam blown between the floors but was told that it is illegal since it would present a fire hazard.

There are eight other condos in here that have no soundproofing. The owners were not able to live in them due to the noise so they moved and rented their condos out. Believe me the renters don't stay there long. Our condo board (all self appointed) never enforce any condo rules so our neighborhood has greatly deteriorated, driving down prices.

[IndianaOwner]

Originally Posted by moondancer

We have called the manufacturer of Quiet Walk and was told that it has never been tested on plywood only concrete subfloors. It states that plainly on their advertising and makes no claims for soundproofing. Quietwalk consists of 1/8 in thick (about the thickness of a nickel) recycled materials...I have a sample and it appears to be paper.
Our ceiling is 5/8 drywall. I suppose hardwood floors would be allowed if they were able to be soundproofed although it doesn't mention hardwood floors. As of now, my neighbor sounds like a rampaging elephant! We have looked into the possiblility of having foam blown between the floors but was told that it is illegal since it would present a fire hazard.

There are eight other condos in here that have no soundproofing. The owners were not able to live in them due to the noise so they moved and rented their condos out. Believe me the renters don't stay there long. Our condo board (all self appointed) never enforce any condo rules so our neighborhood has greatly deteriorated, driving down prices.

As an owner, you should have the right to enforce the Declaration and Bylaws of the condo HOA (you'll need to read the provision about that).

Justalayman is wrong. It is VERY common that stacked condo units have such restrictions to prevent this exact problem. The underlayments that you speak of are to help the laminate or wood floor from sounding "tinny" to the people in that unit, not yours.

You have a legit complaint regardless of if approved by the HOA or not. The attorney for the HOA is giving you a line of BULL since he represents the HOA, NOT YOU. You need an attorney to straighten out the HOA and possibly the neighbor... Do not back down, you are correct.

[moondancer]

Thanks for your support Indianaman. After reading Justalaymans post I was beginning to feel like I was on the wrong planet. LOL He must have misunderstood my point.

I got desperate today and called the Omsbudman for the state of Florida. They told me that the HOA don't have to enforce our condo docs, since it is a rule and not a law... which I find hard to believe. Their advice was to get the Hell out before it gets worse. Hard to do with the real estate market the way it is here now. I doubt that anyone would buy my condo if they were aware of the floor upstairs.
It is extremely frustrating! The property manager told me this morning that he didn't want to talk to me anymore because I was too annoying. lol

[justalayman]

It states that plainly on their advertising and makes no claims for soundproofing.

BS


Here is a clip directly from their website:

Quiet Walk™ underlayment is the hallmark product of MP Global Products . Although it was originally created specifically for laminate flooring,

and floating hardwood products.

Don't know of too many nail down floors on concrete, floating floors, yes but not nail down.

Our revolutionary "Quiet Walk™" laminate floor underlayment smoothes out little subfloor imperfections while quieting impact sound and floor to ceiling noise. Not only does it dampen ambient sound in the room it’s installed in, but it also inhibits sound from traveling into the room below.

Gee, ya think that might be considered some form of soundproofing?? Actually it is sound mitigation. There are very few things in this world that actually soundproof much of anything.

Sound Transmission Loss. The sound-insulating property of a partition element is expressed in terms of the sound transmission loss. ASTM E90-97, ASTM E413-87 Sound Transmission Class (STC) = 52.

This would be a sound barrier rating.

Granted it is not the main purpose of the product but the manufacturer does claim sound transmission limiting properties.

to indianaowner:

Justalayman is wrong. It is VERY common that stacked condo units have such restrictions to prevent this exact problem.

Don't know how I can be wrong about this since I posted this:

I do not know what the requirements or restrictions in your rules that are germane but I find it hard to believe that wood flooring would not be allowed

.
Didn't say anything as factual that I could be wrong about. Unless you are in my head how would you know if I found something hard to believe or not. It is a personal perspective, not stating facts.


Now moondancer, depending upon what type of ceiling you have, there still may be help if you want it. Even though I have been thouroughly dissed, I may still have an idea or two but it would depend upon what you have for a ceiling.

[IndianaOwner]

There are ONLY two "persons" that can enforce this:

(1) The condo association.

(2) You.

If the condo association refuses to enforce it, then you must.

An "Omsbudman for the state of Florida" has no interest in this matter...only (1) and (2) above do. You are barking up the wrong tree.

Get out the condo docs (Declaration, Bylaws, and Rules and Regulations). They will spell out the procedures... Typically there is a provision in the Declaration that specifically states an agreived owner can seek enforcement. The condo assoc attorney isn't going to say, yes the condo assoc messed up and are liable...he doesn't represent you!

[moondancer]

I can't find anything in our condo docs concerning procedure for grievance. It does say that the board can decide what level of soundproofing is acceptable. Since they screwed up I'm sure they are not going to admit it. They have told nothing but lies since this whole thing began.

We were told the other day by the property manager that the only way that the board would correct the floor is for the court to order them to. Can't imagine the court costs... I was told that even if I win the case that I can't recover legal fees. I can't imagine paying a possible $25,000 and still be no better off than I am now.

I thought the Florida Omsbudman was the ultimate authority on condo law. You mean it's not? Anyway thanks to you and Justalayman for trying to help.

So I guess we are screwed!