I didn't know about HOA, am I bound by their rules?

[WikWak]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? West Virginia
Here is my situation; my wife and purchased our home, 8 years ago, in a rural area of West Virginia. We received a letter from the people that we thought were just there to collect the water and sewer fees and to maintain the roads. Their name even led us to believe this ("The ****** ******* Service Company"). The letter stated that we were in violation of some article of the "Bylaws" because we had, as they put it, " a junked vehicle" sitting in our driveway. (We had just acquired the car for our son who will be driving soon and it is not licensed yet and by their definition, a “junked Car” is one that is not licensed. The car itself is in good shape and will soon be licensed, it’s just the principle of the thing, you know, “My property, My business”). I and my wife just looked at each other like it was some kind of joke and I said "What's a bylaw? And why is the water company concerned about a car in our driveway?" Well then we called around and found out that this neighborhood is supposedly governed by these bylaws and that there are "restricted Covenants" running with the land that goes along with our deed. Well we had the deed, so I looked and there was nothing other than a sentence that said that the deed was subject to Restrictive Covenants. We assumed that these Restrictive Covenants were referring to the "Bylaws", so we called around again to see if we could track down a copy of them. To add to the confusion, allot of our neighbors had never seen them; one neighbor has lived here for 25 years and had never seen them! We finally did find a copy of them and began reading them, most of the things that are listed are things that different neighbors have always done since we've lived here and never thought twice about, again more confusion. Then we talked to one of our neighbors that used to be on the "Board of Directors" of what we thought was just a service company, and she told us that the restricted covenants that the deed refers to is a list that is on record at the courthouse in our county and that those are what we are required to go by and not the bylaws, Again more confusion! So we went to the courthouse and at first they had no idea what she was talking about but then after searching way back to 1977, they found them. The restrictions from the deed reads allot like the bylaws but are less detailed than the bylaws. For example: the Bylaws define a junked car as "one that is unlicensed or is seen as a nuisance to any good man", however the deed restrictions define a junked car as "one that will not move on it's own". The deed restrictions enable your neighbor to take you to court to try and make you comply with the restrictions while the bylaws state that the service company can fine you to bring you into compliance. The deed restrictions do not mention anything about a "Homeowners Association" which I'm guessing is what this company is trying to be.

Other than the obvious confusion about the whole ordeal, one thing in the bylaws has left my wife and me and allot of our neighbors "scratching our heads". It states that "Each member of this corporation shall execute or otherwise affix his/her/their signature on a written contract with this corporation for purposes of duties and obligations prescribed therein in relation to fees and other obligations incurred from their membership. But, we never signed any contracts or became a “Member” of anything. Some have told us that we automatically became a member when we purchased the property however, I found this: Article 11 Of The UNIFORM UNINCORPORATED NONPROFIT ASSOCIATION ACT, under WV Code 36-1-1
“ Joint tenancy, tenancy in common, or tenancy by the entireties does not by itself establish a nonprofit association”
“A person may not be liable for a breach of a nonprofit association's contract merely because the person …is considered to be a member by the nonprofit association.”
Which brings me to my first question, Based on this are we required to be a “member” and abide by these “bylaws” even though we didn’t sign anything or know anything about it until now?

As far as the “Deed Restrictions”, we didn’t know anything about them either and when we found out and obtained them, they had another couples name typed on them (people we had never heard of) and they weren’t signed by anyone. Do the following laws apply to “Deed Restrictions”, and if they do, my next question is – are we bound by this contract or is it invalid?

“WV Code 36-1-3 No contract for the sale of land, or the lease thereof for more than one year, shall be enforceable unless the contract or some note or memorandum thereof be in writing and signed by the party to be charged thereby, or by his agent. But the consideration need not be set forth or expressed in the writing, and it may be proved by other evidence.”

‘WV Code 40-1-15 A purchaser shall not, under this article, or articles one, two and eleven, chapter thirty-eight of this code, be affected by the record of a deed or contract made by a person under whom his title is not derived; nor by the record of a deed or contract made by any person under whom the title of such purchaser is derived, if it was made by such person, and was recorded, before he acquired the legal title.”

One thing that I forgot to mention, we contacted County officials to see if there was any ordinances or laws prohibiting unlicensed vehicles and they said that there were none. And since we do not live in any city, there are no city ordinances to follow. So as far as the Federal/State/County laws are concerned, we are not criminals!

I realize that this post is rather lengthy and I apologize but I needed to give this information in order for you to possibly answer my questions. Thank You!

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by WikWak

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? West Virginia
Here is my situation; my wife and purchased our home, 8 years ago, in a rural area of West Virginia.


**A: the above is all that I am going to read. Look at your title report and tell us if there are recorded CC&R's.
**********

We received a letter from the people that we thought were just there to collect the water and sewer fees and to maintain the roads. Their name even led us to believe this ("The ****** ******* Service Company"). The letter stated that we were in violation of some article of the "Bylaws" because we had, as they put it, " a junked vehicle" sitting in our driveway. (We had just acquired the car for our son who will be driving soon and it is not licensed yet and by their definition, a “junked Car” is one that is not licensed. The car itself is in good shape and will soon be licensed, it’s just the principle of the thing, you know, “My property, My business”). I and my wife just looked at each other like it was some kind of joke and I said "What's a bylaw? And why is the water company concerned about a car in our driveway?" Well then we called around and found out that this neighborhood is supposedly governed by these bylaws and that there are "restricted Covenants" running with the land that goes along with our deed. Well we had the deed, so I looked and there was nothing other than a sentence that said that the deed was subject to Restrictive Covenants. We assumed that these Restrictive Covenants were referring to the "Bylaws", so we called around again to see if we could track down a copy of them. To add to the confusion, allot of our neighbors had never seen them; one neighbor has lived here for 25 years and had never seen them! We finally did find a copy of them and began reading them, most of the things that are listed are things that different neighbors have always done since we've lived here and never thought twice about, again more confusion. Then we talked to one of our neighbors that used to be on the "Board of Directors" of what we thought was just a service company, and she told us that the restricted covenants that the deed refers to is a list that is on record at the courthouse in our county and that those are what we are required to go by and not the bylaws, Again more confusion! So we went to the courthouse and at first they had no idea what she was talking about but then after searching way back to 1977, they found them. The restrictions from the deed reads allot like the bylaws but are less detailed than the bylaws. For example: the Bylaws define a junked car as "one that is unlicensed or is seen as a nuisance to any good man", however the deed restrictions define a junked car as "one that will not move on it's own". The deed restrictions enable your neighbor to take you to court to try and make you comply with the restrictions while the bylaws state that the service company can fine you to bring you into compliance. The deed restrictions do not mention anything about a "Homeowners Association" which I'm guessing is what this company is trying to be.

Other than the obvious confusion about the whole ordeal, one thing in the bylaws has left my wife and me and allot of our neighbors "scratching our heads". It states that "Each member of this corporation shall execute or otherwise affix his/her/their signature on a written contract with this corporation for purposes of duties and obligations prescribed therein in relation to fees and other obligations incurred from their membership. But, we never signed any contracts or became a “Member” of anything. Some have told us that we automatically became a member when we purchased the property however, I found this: Article 11 Of The UNIFORM UNINCORPORATED NONPROFIT ASSOCIATION ACT, under WV Code 36-1-1
“ Joint tenancy, tenancy in common, or tenancy by the entireties does not by itself establish a nonprofit association”
“A person may not be liable for a breach of a nonprofit association's contract merely because the person …is considered to be a member by the nonprofit association.”
Which brings me to my first question, Based on this are we required to be a “member” and abide by these “bylaws” even though we didn’t sign anything or know anything about it until now?

As far as the “Deed Restrictions”, we didn’t know anything about them either and when we found out and obtained them, they had another couples name typed on them (people we had never heard of) and they weren’t signed by anyone. Do the following laws apply to “Deed Restrictions”, and if they do, my next question is – are we bound by this contract or is it invalid?

“WV Code 36-1-3 No contract for the sale of land, or the lease thereof for more than one year, shall be enforceable unless the contract or some note or memorandum thereof be in writing and signed by the party to be charged thereby, or by his agent. But the consideration need not be set forth or expressed in the writing, and it may be proved by other evidence.”

‘WV Code 40-1-15 A purchaser shall not, under this article, or articles one, two and eleven, chapter thirty-eight of this code, be affected by the record of a deed or contract made by a person under whom his title is not derived; nor by the record of a deed or contract made by any person under whom the title of such purchaser is derived, if it was made by such person, and was recorded, before he acquired the legal title.”

One thing that I forgot to mention, we contacted County officials to see if there was any ordinances or laws prohibiting unlicensed vehicles and they said that there were none. And since we do not live in any city, there are no city ordinances to follow. So as far as the Federal/State/County laws are concerned, we are not criminals!

I realize that this post is rather lengthy and I apologize but I needed to give this information in order for you to possibly answer my questions. Thank You!

**A: when you give us the answer to our question, we will give you our response.

[WikWak]

I told you what we had and what it said, if you're only going to read the first line of a post, then you probably can't help me anyway, because I can't explain everything in just one line! (I gues this means that you won't read all of this post either because it's more than one line!) But since you did take the time to reply, and I do appreciate the timely response, I will answer your question. I don't know anything about a "Title Report", the only thing that we originally received was a Deed to the property! If this is too much for you to read then I sincerely apologize for wasting your time!

[PghREA]

Originally Posted by WikWak

I told you what we had and what it said, if you're only going to read the first line of a post, then you probably can't help me anyway, because I can't explain everything in just one line! (I gues this means that you won't read all of this post either because it's more than one line!) But since you did take the time to reply, and I do appreciate the timely response, I will answer your question. I don't know anything about a "Title Report", the only thing that we originally received was a Deed to the property! If this is too much for you to read then I sincerely apologize for wasting your time!

Do you have ALL the papers that you signed when you closed on your home
8 years ago? One of those papers should be a Title Report - that is when the closing company researchs the property. HomeGuru is asking you to look through your papers to find and READ that report. The information he is asking for will help us to answer your questions.

By the way - "allot" means:
1. give as share: to give something to somebody as a share of what is available or what has to be done. ie - I was allotted the task of sweeping up.
2. earmark: to earmark or reserve something for a purpose. ie - allotting ten shelves for books

I think you meant to use "a lot"

[WikWak]

Ok, I apologize for the misunderstanding! Our situation is rather unique, here goes! My wifes mother originally obtained the loan in which we payed the bank through her. After we found out that she was charging us more than what the bank required and at a higher interest rate so that she could make a profit from it. I took her to court (Pro-Se) and the judge ruled that we had a verbal agreement (nothing was in writing) with her to purchase the property at no profit to her. He further determined that we had paid off our 10 year loan in 6 years as he added all of her profits in as payments. He then ordered her to sign over the deed to the property, which is what she did. All of the closing was done by her and paid for by her as ordered by the judge. The only papers that we received was a deed drawn up by her attorney and signed by her. As far as any type of "purchase Agreement" or "title Report" or anything else for that matter, there was nothing! A Court order and a deed!
I need to clarify that we did not "sign" anything when the property was transferred to us. We have a document deeding the property to us!

And yes I do mean "A lot" (bad habit of mine)!

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by WikWak

I told you what we had and what it said, if you're only going to read the first line of a post, then you probably can't help me anyway, because I can't explain everything in just one line! (I gues this means that you won't read all of this post either because it's more than one line!) But since you did take the time to reply, and I do appreciate the timely response, I will answer your question. I don't know anything about a "Title Report", the only thing that we originally received was a Deed to the property! If this is too much for you to read then I sincerely apologize for wasting your time!

**A: Ok then, lot's of luck. You're gonna need it.