Removal of parking sign

[luis67]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

I live in Orlando and have a property in a condominium and I rented it. I rarely visit this property. My tenant put up a reserved parking sign in one of the parking spots (of the condominium’s parking lot) close to my unit. Recently there was condominium association meeting that I attended in which a unit owner complained about my tenant’s parking sign then the association asked me if I will remove it and I agreed to remove it.

Once I came out of the meeting, I did some research and noticed that some other unit owners in that condominium also have put up their reserved parking signs. I also noticed the following from the “articles of incorporation of the condominium association”:

“Discrimination: No amendment to these Articles shall be made which discriminate against any unit owner(s), or affects less than all of the unit owners within this condominium, without the written approval of all the unit owners so discriminated against or affected.”

I did not give any written approval to remove my tenant’s parking sign and my approval (to remove my tenant’s parking sign) during the association meeting was only verbal. There is no mentioning of parking signs in the condo association by-laws or “articles of incorporation of the condominium association”.

My question now is: now, can I retract my promise of removing my tenant’s sign, because of the following reasons: (i). my insufficient knowledge about other units’ parking signs that are already in place and no one appraised me of this (ii). asking me to remove my tenant’s parking sign but not asking other people’s parking signs is discrimination (iii). the parking sign issue was not in the agenda of the meeting and it was suddenly raised by one of the owners therefore, I did not get a chance to educate myself on this matter, before the meeting.

 

[justalayman]

“Discrimination: No amendment to these Articles shall be made which discriminate against any unit owner(s), or affects less than all of the unit owners within this condominium, without the written approval of all the unit owners so discriminated against or affected.”

not sure of your point. Did they enact an amendment at that meeting?

(i). my insufficient knowledge about other units’ parking signs that are already in place and no one appraised me of this

irrelevent

(ii). asking me to remove my tenant’s parking sign but not asking other people’s parking signs is discrimination

unless you are aware of illegal discrimination involved; irrelevent

(iii). the parking sign issue was not in the agenda of the meeting and it was suddenly raised by one of the owners therefore, I did not get a chance to educate myself on this matter, before the meeting.

you could have said no or you would investigate the matter before giving an answer.



anyway; unless there is a rule against such a sign, you would presumably have no requirement to remove the sign, even if you said you would. If there is a rule against the sign, you have no argument to not removing the sign but you do have an argument that all the other non-compliant signs be removed.


I suspect this may be because your tenant installed the sign. Unless your lease allows him to do so, he had no right to install the sign and as such, it is reasonable to demand it be taken down.

 

[luis67]

Thank you very much for your detailed response and I sincerely appreciate. Kindly see my answers.

>> not sure of your point. Did they enact an amendment at that meeting?

NO, they did not enact an amendment

>> anyway; unless there is a rule against such a sign, you would presumably have no requirement to remove the sign, even if you said you would. If there is a rule against the sign, you have no argument to not removing the sign but you do have an argument that all the other non-compliant signs be removed.

Now, I would like to say to the condominium association that I do not want my tenant’s (my) sign to be removed because there is no rule against the parking sign. Please suggest me. In addition, as you said, if the association makes a rule (in the future) specifically asking me to remove my sign (but not asking everyone else to remove) then it will be discriminatory.

>> I suspect this may be because your tenant installed the sign. Unless your lease allows him to do so, he had no right to install the sign and as such, it is reasonable to demand it be taken down.

What is there in the lease between me and my tenant is purely a matter between me and my tenant: the condominium association has nothing to do with the lease (as per the association rules, I am free to give my unit for rent to anyone of my choice). Also there is no condo rule differentiating the owners from the tenants, in terms of parking signs. Therefore, for all legal purposes related to this sign, my tenant’s sign should be treated as my sign (and my tenant should be treated as me). Although there is no mentioning of signs in the lease, I want my tenant to get a fair chance to display his parking sign, like any other unit owners display their parking signs (else, the customers of other unit owners are parking in the parking spot close to my unit therefore my tenant is finding it difficult to transfer his equipment back and forth between my unit and his trucks: I learned this from my tenant AFTER I made the promise in the association meeting). The unit owner (who complained against my tenant’s sign) does not like my tenant and they both had some issues in the past therefore the other unit owner complained.

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you very much for your detailed response and I sincerely appreciate. Kindly see my answers.

>> not sure of your point. Did they enact an amendment at that meeting?

NO, they did not enact an amendment

>> anyway; unless there is a rule against such a sign, you would presumably have no requirement to remove the sign, even if you said you would. If there is a rule against the sign, you have no argument to not removing the sign but you do have an argument that all the other non-compliant signs be removed.

Now, I would like to say to the condominium association that I do not want my tenant’s (my) sign to be removed because there is no rule against the parking sign. Please suggest me. In addition, as you said, if the association makes a rule (in the future) specifically asking me to remove my sign (but not asking everyone else to remove) then it will be discriminatory.

>> I suspect this may be because your tenant installed the sign. Unless your lease allows him to do so, he had no right to install the sign and as such, it is reasonable to demand it be taken down.

What is there in the lease between me and my tenant is purely a matter between me and my tenant: the condominium association has nothing to do with the lease (as per the association rules, I am free to give my unit for rent to anyone of my choice). Also there is no condo rule differentiating the owners from the tenants, in terms of parking signs. Therefore, for all legal purposes related to this sign, my tenant’s sign should be treated as my sign (and my tenant should be treated as me). Although there is no mentioning of signs in the lease, I want my tenant to get a fair chance to display his parking sign, like any other unit owners display their parking signs (else, the customers of other unit owners are parking in the parking spot close to my unit therefore my tenant is finding it difficult to transfer his equipment back and forth between my unit and his trucks: I learned this from my tenant AFTER I made the promise in the association meeting). The unit owner (who complained against my tenant’s sign) does not like my tenant and they both had some issues in the past therefore the other unit owner complained.

I would simply inform the HOA that after the meeting you observed that there were many reserved parking signs in the lots and you will be happy to remove your tenant's sign as soon as all of the others are removed.

 

[justalayman]

NO, they did not enact an amendment

my point was that since they did not enact an amendment, the section of the rules you quoted are not relevent.

Now, I would like to say to the condominium association that I do not want my tenant’s (my) sign to be removed because there is no rule against the parking sign.

You need to verify there is no rule against tenants making such alterations though.

Owners often have different rights than a tenant of an owner in what they can do. Your tenant posted a sign in a common area which in itself typically not allowed by anybody let alone a tenant. In general, an individual has no right to alter a common area without express permission by the board.

Please suggest me. In addition, as you said, if the association makes a rule (in the future) specifically asking me to remove my sign (but not asking everyone else to remove) then it will be discriminatory.

I have no idea whether some proposed rule may be discriminatory. You will have to deal with such an issue if it happens.

What is there in the lease between me and my tenant is purely a matter between me and my tenant:

but your contract cannot alter the rules applicable to common areas.

the condominium association has nothing to do with the lease (as per the association rules, I am free to give my unit for rent to anyone of my choice). Also there is no condo rule differentiating the owners from the tenants, in terms of parking signs. Therefore, for all legal purposes related to this sign, my tenant’s sign should be treated as my sign (and my tenant should be treated as me).

so is there a rule allowing such signs in common areas? If not, they have a right to demand the sign be removed. If you have issue others have the signs, as I said before, you may have a right to seek they too be removed but that does not remove you from the requirement you remove your sign, even if the others have not removed their signs. ,

I want my tenant to get a fair chance to display his parking sign, like any other unit owners display their parking signs (else, the customers of other unit owners are parking in the parking spot close to my unit therefore my tenant is finding it difficult to transfer his equipment back and forth between my unit and his trucks:

huh? It sounds like there may be a bigger problem brewing. It sounds like your tenant may be using your unit and associated common areas for commercial purposes. I suggest you look into this aspect before making too much noise. It would appear at the moment they have done nothing other than ask the sign be removed. If there is a rule against using the residence and common areas for commercial purposes, your tenant may find himself with much bigger issues to deal with.

 

[luis67]

Thanks Ldij and justalayman for your feedback and I appreciate.

More detailed information (earlier, I thought that this additional information is not needed therefore, I simplified the story earlier):

The condominium itself is a commercial complex (not residential) therefore there is no “additional business” benefit involved just by these signs, except reserving the parking spots. The by-laws say “each unit shall have the right to use 3 parking spaces/spots located immediately adjacent to, or across from, the unit”. However, there is no mentioning of parking signs.

However, the visitors of other units are parking in the parking lots that are immediately adjacent to my unit (because they are immediately visible once the visitors enter the condominium) therefore my tenant put up 2 signs (in two parking spots) immediately adjacent to my unit as he finds it difficult to carry his equipment to and from the trucks otherwise. My north side neighbor complained that the 2nd sign/spot of my tenant is encroaching into his unit’s boundary. That is why the condo association asked me to move my 2nd sign to a parking spot across from my unit. Notice that the parking spots are not exactly matching with the boundaries of the respective units. Therefore, there some parking spots that are overlapping between (or spanning across) the boundaries of the neighboring units.

The interesting thing is: my south side neighbor also put exactly 2 parking signs (in two parking spots) immediately adjacent to his unit. His 2nd parking sign/spot is also encroaching into my unit. However, I never complained against my south side neighbor.

There are several other units in the condo. Some of them placed two parking signs is two parking spots (some of them placed just one sign in one parking spot) either across from their units or immediately adjacent to their units or both: but no one unit placed more than 3 parking signs. This has been happening for years. However there are no complaints except the recent complaint from my north side neighbor.

There is no by-law differentiating the tenant from a owner. Also there are no by-laws on displaying or prohibiting or encouraging the parking signs. There are no by-laws on how to decide a parking spot if it is spanning across the boundaries of its corresponding neighboring units.

What I want to argue is as follows:

(i). without asking my south side neighbor to remove his 2nd parking sign, the association specifically asked me to remove my (my tenant’s) 2nd parking sign. Since this rule is not applied to my south side neighbor therefore it is discriminatory.

(ii). because there is no by-law prohibiting the parking signs, I am (i.e., my tenant) not violating any by-law. I just put up 2 parking signs in 2 parking spots immediately adjacent to my unit as many other people did.

(iii). there is no by-law on the usage of parking spots that are spanning across the boundaries of the respective units. Therefore, I did not violate any by-law with my parking signs (specifically the one adjacent to my north side neighbor).

(iv). My north side neighbor has too many visitors and they frequently park in the parking spots immediately adjacent to my unit (it has been reduced but still happening despite my tenant’s parking signs)

Any other arguments?

I request your feedback

 

[justalayman]

this is a condominium of commercial units? gee, seems that might have been relevant previously.

(i). without asking my south side neighbor to remove his 2nd parking sign, the association specifically asked me to remove my (my tenant’s) 2nd parking sign. Since this rule is not applied to my south side neighbor therefore it is discriminatory.

what is your claimed basis for the discrimination that would move it to illegal discrimination? Discrimination in itself is not illegal. Illegal discrimination is illegal. Unequal enforcement of a rule is not illegal discrimination unless the bases for the unequal enforcement is defined as a protected class of persons.

(ii). because there is no by-law prohibiting the parking signs, I am (i.e., my tenant) not violating any by-law. I just put up 2 parking signs in 2 parking spots immediately adjacent to my unit as many other people did.

this is not a matter of no restriction but one rather of allowance. Unless the rules allow the placement of a sign in a common area, it is beyond the individual owners rights to alter the common areas. I suspect there is some rule about not damaging common areas and liability for those that do. Posting a sign does cause some level of damage.

(iii). there is no by-law on the usage of parking spots that are spanning across the boundaries of the respective units. Therefore, I did not violate any by-law with my parking signs (specifically the one adjacent to my north side neighbor).

and just the same there is nothing requiring anybody to respect the signs so when you find people parking where your tenant has posted the signs, tell him to get over it since the sign is actually meaningless.

(iv). My north side neighbor has too many visitors and they frequently park in the parking spots immediately adjacent to my unit (it has been reduced but still happening despite my tenant’s parking signs)

since you do not have a right to enforce the sign, I suggest getting over it.


what you really need is an amendment to the bylaws that specifies a right to post signs and provisions to allow the owner of the sign to enforce them.

 

[luis67]

Thank you very much once again.

I consider that the by-law "No amendment to these Articles shall be made which discriminate against any unit owner(s), or affects less than all of the unit owners within 1804 condominium, a condominium, without the written approval of all the unit owners so discriminated against or affected." is my strong argument because the recent order from the association is not applied to my south side neighbor and "illegal discrimination" is not required for this by-law to be applicable.

Once again thanks.

 

[justalayman]

"No amendment to these Articles shall be made which discriminate against any unit owner(s),

if you want to get really picky to make a point (which you are) notice the statement speaks specifically to owners.


anyway, that speaks to an amendment and so far you have not presented any amendment that is suggested as being discriminatory.


You are attempting to argue an unequal application of an amendment or rule, not an actual amendment but are attempting to use the rule regarding amendments to somehow argue the actions improper.

If you have a problem with that, seek equal enforcement of the rule or amendment which means unless it can be shown posting signs in a common area is allowable, everybody removes their signs. Make sure you attend the next board meeting so you can present your complaint. Until then you are subject to the enforcement of the rules as the board determines to be proper.

 

[luis67]

Thank you once again and I appreciate.
About your statement "Until then you are subject to the enforcement of the rules as the board determines to be proper"

I have three questions on this:

(i). Is it necessary to implement a rule which I am protesting and which is not equally applied?

(ii). Do I need to enforce this rule although I retract my offer to remove the sign?

(iii). What would be the possible consequences if I do not enforce this now?

 

[justalayman]

(i). Is it necessary to implement a rule which I am protesting and which is not equally applied?

the board implements rules. You can propose a rule if you so desire

(ii). Do I need to enforce this rule although I retract my offer to remove the sign?

the board enforces the rules. You can request they enforce a rule

(iii). What would be the possible consequences if I do not enforce this now?

enforce what? You have been requested to remove the sign. You either remove it or your don't. You were ASKED to remove it. From what you said nobody invoked any enforceable rule that would require you to remove it.

 

[luis67]

Thank you once again and I appreciate.

Sorry for my serious language mistakes and poor English. Let me ask my questions correctly this time.

About your statement "Until then you are subject to the enforcement of the rules as the board determines to be proper"

I am planning to request the condo association to give me a chance to me (my tenant) keep his parking signs until the association further investigate and make a decision that is uniformly applicable to everyone in the association. if the association agree then it is fine. Else I have the following 4 questions:

(i). Is it necessary/mandatory for me to implement the association decision to remove my 2nd parking sign now (because I raised some questions on its discrimination, etc)?

(ii). Now, can I retract my agreement/willingness (of removing my 2nd parking sign) that I agreed to remove the parking sign during the meeting?

(iii). What would be the possible consequences if I do not remove the parking sign now?

(iv). If the association insists me to remove my parking sign now, then do I have sufficient legal grounds to sue them for asking me to removing my parking sign on me alone (but not on my south side neighbor, who is exactly in the same situation as I am)?

 

[justalayman]

I am planning to request the condo association to give me a chance to me (my tenant) keep his parking signs until the association further investigate and make a decision that is uniformly applicable to everyone in the association. if the association agree then it is fine. Else I have the following 4 questions:

(i). Is it necessary/mandatory for me to implement the association decision to remove my 2nd parking sign now (because I raised some questions on its discrimination, etc)?

(ii). Now, can I retract my agreement/willingness (of removing my 2nd parking sign) that I agreed to remove the parking sign during the meeting?

stop putting so much work into this. Simply tell the that after you had time to think you see no reason you should have to remove the sign when there as so many others with signs for the same purpose. Obviously do this in a manner conducive to reaching an agreeable solution rather than causing upset where they may simply decide to make a demand outright.

(iii). What would be the possible consequences if I do not remove the parking sign now?

no idea as I have no idea what the rules of the association say to the matter. I would suspect if anything is done it would have to start with a formal notice of a violation of some rule. If that happens then you deal with whatever the claimed charge is.

(iv). If the association insists me to remove my parking sign now, then do I have sufficient legal grounds to sue them for asking me to removing my parking sign on me alone (but not on my south side neighbor, who is exactly in the same situation as I am)?

there is not generally a requirement rules be enforced equally.

 

[luis67]

many many... thanks!