Simple Simple Questions – Answers Appreciated

[ecs]

What is the name of your state? New Jersey


1. I make a request to review my Association’s books & records. The Association places the condition that they “require” (that was the word used) that my attorney be present (along with theirs). I reply that if they “require” my attorney to be present they are responsible for paying for his time, and must pre-pay any invoice he sends to the association for this “requirement” (so that they won’t stiff him). Is this reason for them to deny my request to review the books & records?

2. If one member of the Board (only) sends an email announcing an assessment & gives a deadline for payment, and there is no record of any open meeting for the purpose of levying an assessment - that the Board met & voted to approve the assessment, can a member of the association demand to see a record of approval by the entire Board before paying the “assessment”? In other words, does an email from one Board member only who asks for money for an “assessment” equal Board approval of it?

3. If a member of the Board – or the entire Board – warns that they will suspend the rights of & institute collection procedures against anyone who does not pay an “assessment” which was only announced by email (see #2) and for which the person has first asked to see a record of the Board’s vote to approve it – can the Board act to suspend that person’s rights & act to institute collection procedures?

4. Can a person’s rights be suspended (for any reason) without the Board meeting openly & voting to do so?

I may post more questions as this bizarre scenario plays out.

Accurate responses very much appreciated.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by ecs

What is the name of your state? New Jersey


1. I make a request to review my Association’s books & records. The Association places the condition that they “require” (that was the word used) that my attorney be present (along with theirs). I reply that if they “require” my attorney to be present they are responsible for paying for his time, and must pre-pay any invoice he sends to the association for this “requirement” (so that they won’t stiff him). Is this reason for them to deny my request to review the books & records?


**A: yes



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2. If one member of the Board (only) sends an email announcing an assessment & gives a deadline for payment, and there is no record of any open meeting for the purpose of levying an assessment - that the Board met & voted to approve the assessment, can a member of the association demand to see a record of approval by the entire Board before paying the “assessment”? In other words, does an email from one Board member only who asks for money for an “assessment” equal Board approval of it?

**A: yes and no.


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3. If a member of the Board – or the entire Board – warns that they will suspend the rights of & institute collection procedures against anyone who does not pay an “assessment” which was only announced by email (see #2) and for which the person has first asked to see a record of the Board’s vote to approve it – can the Board act to suspend that person’s rights & act to institute collection procedures?


**A: possibly depending upon the circumstances.


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4. Can a person’s rights be suspended (for any reason) without the Board meeting openly & voting to do so?


**A: yes if the condo docs state such.


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I may post more questions as this bizarre scenario plays out.

Accurate responses very much appreciated.

**A: why not pay what is owed then challenge.

[private_person3]

Originally Posted by ecs

What is the name of your state? New Jersey


1. I make a request to review my Association’s books & records. The Association places the condition that they “require” (that was the word used) that my attorney be present (along with theirs). I reply that if they “require” my attorney to be present they are responsible for paying for his time, and must pre-pay any invoice he sends to the association for this “requirement” (so that they won’t stiff him). Is this reason for them to deny my request to review the books & records?

No. NJ Law gives you right to access and review all open minutes and all financial records. All you need to do is give them "reasonable" notice. In NJ, it is not tolerated. Contact these people immediately: http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/newhome_warranty/assoc_regs_initiative.shtml They are an Administrative Agency. You will have to stay on top of them. But they will help. The HOA cannot deny you access... well unless you are not in "Good Standing (See #3)"

2. If one member of the Board (only) sends an email announcing an assessment & gives a deadline for payment, and there is no record of any open meeting for the purpose of levying an assessment - that the Board met & voted to approve the assessment, can a member of the association demand to see a record of approval by the entire Board before paying the “assessment”? In other words, does an email from one Board member only who asks for money for an “assessment” equal Board approval of it?

In NJ, all votes for any binding decision, must be taken in an Open Session. NJ strictly forbids any private voting. Also, notices from the board must be sent legally. An email is not good enough. Also, depending on your particular By-laws, the HOA may be required to announce any meeting dealing with the budget and/or assessments. If they have violated the law in any manner in which they passed their assessments, you can challenge it in court. Of course you will have to weigh the cost and effect of such action.

3. If a member of the Board – or the entire Board – warns that they will suspend the rights of & institute collection procedures against anyone who does not pay an “assessment” which was only announced by email (see #2) and for which the person has first asked to see a record of the Board’s vote to approve it – can the Board act to suspend that person’s rights & act to institute collection procedures?

The HOA can suspend your privileges (pools, tennis courts, parking, voting, access, etc.) for nonpayment of assessments. There is no difference between your Annual assessment or Special one.

4. Can a person’s rights be suspended (for any reason) without the Board meeting openly & voting to do so?

Yes. Penalties such as suspension are most likely spelled out in your By-laws. As such, the process has been formulated and runs automatically. Your concept is like telling a cop not to arrest you until after you've had a trial.

I may post more questions as this bizarre scenario plays out.

Accurate responses very much appreciated.

You could send a certified letter requesting ADR on this matter and challenge the legality of this assessment based on improper procedures. In NJ your HOA must provide access to ADR. From there you could take your matter to court. However, be real about the situation. Does the HOA need money? If so, then they need the Assessment. Just because they goofed on the procedure, does not mean the assessment is invalid. Remember, if it is in the best interest of the HOA, it is also in yours!

Good Luck!

[private_person3]

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

**A: why not pay what is owed then challenge.

YES! Always pay then challenge. If you do not pay, then you not only have to fight the first fight, but now you must also fight to clear your name.

This certainly goes against conventional wisdom. I mean, if you hire a laborer and his works sucks, you don't pay. If you pay, you look like you were a satisfied customer who is experiencing buyers remorse. This is a classic People's Court case.

HOA's are a unique animal in this respect. And just to head off any other plan on this: placing your payment in Escrow, is just as good as not paying it all.

[ecs]

If they have violated the law in any manner in which they passed their assessments, you can challenge it in court.

The heart of the problem is that this Board has not collectively passed assessments - no meeting notices, no meetings, no minutes, no record. They don't get that there has to be a record of every decision. The other related problem is that it is not the Board - as a whole - who is acting - it is only one member of the Board who is sending out emails announcing an assessment, how much, and when it is due. The lone email is the only notice.

Also - in each section of the ByLaws having to do with assessments, is the phrase "as established by the Board" or "at the discretion of the Board" or "the Board may levy" is in the text. At the risk of being facetious, are we supposed to consult a crystal ball or engage in mindreading to determine that the Board - as a whole - approved an assessment?

It boggles the mind to then think they can then suspend rights when the assessment process has not been instituted by the Board as a whole, with no record thereof.

Regarding suspension of rights - the ByLaws say that they can suspended by the Board - so - if this were to happen, how would I know whether they were indeed suspended by the Board - or only by one person alone - with no record that the Board indeed acted to suspend?

What is wrong with this picture is that they don't get that they are members of a team - and the team must act together & establish a record of their collective actions. What is worse is that the Board lawyer is not an expert in condo law, does not know NJ condo law, and has been giving them bad advice - according to my attorney. Consequently, they think they are invincible.

Meanwhile, our Assn. has been run into the ground, there has been reckless spending, we have no money, are in financial straits, and if a buyer were interested, they probably would not be able to get a mortgage if/when the lender rerviewed the books. We don't have the numbers to remove anyone - this is a 9-unit condo with a 5-man board, and there are only two non-board members who would act for removal, and that's not enough.

Also - ADR here is a joke - we already filed one last spring and the conclusions of the provider - who was another condo assn. president - were so biased it would have been hilarious if it weren't so sad. Since our Board has to provide ADR - you think they'd prefer someone neutral or someone who (wink wink) they can politically smooth over?

[private_person3]

If it is as bad as you say, then welcome to NJ!

Bad joke, but so true. Others on this forum know that I first came here seeking advice because my HOA was running a bit screwy. I fixed it by running for the board.

At any rate, since you have a lawyer, it seems high time to put to work filing some papers!

Good Luck!

[ecs]

Our request to review the books & records is Nov. 7th, and we are leaving NJ the next day to go south for the winter. They are making it very difficult for us - we must go to the office of their attorney 50 miles away to review books & records, set a date they know is inconvenient, demanding / requiring that our attorney attend (on our dime). We are refusing to meet that demand, but have agreed to the others to get it done, and then we are giving our attorney a list of things missing. We are also betting that they will cancel out that date at the last minute knowing we are leaving the next day for several months. Our lawyer knows we'll have to handle things long distance from that point. We made our initial request almost 2 mionths ago.

They even want to send all Assn. notices to our attorney - instead of to us - & have him send them to us - which is nuts - and they demand to know if/when the time comes when he no longer represents us.

Meanwhile, we suspect some irregularities with the books - that may even turn out to be criminal - we think they may be worried if some things come out and they & their lawyer are blowing lots of smoke & mirrors.

At some point papers will most likely be filed - they are determined to thwart our rights & treat us like 2nd class citizens instead of focusing on doing any good & responsible work for this Assn. and carrying out their fiduciary responsibility.