Water leak issue in our Co-op, need help

[jinglingxl]

Hi everyone, I’m running into an issue now with water pipe leak in our Co-op (NYC). The super came over the weekend said 3rd floor units bath room ceiling have a huge water leak and it’s caused by our unit on 5th floor.

There is no exposed water leak in our bath room at all, but it does seem that when we turn on the water in the tub, it starts to drip in the 3rd floor bathroom. To me this probably caused by the water waste pipe inside the wall. The Super and building management insist it’s our responsibility to repair and pay for the fix. I told them that since leak is not visible in our unit, and likely caused by the pipes in the wall below us, we shouldn’t be responsible.

Then the management send us this Memo that supposedly indicates the owner are responsible for this type of repair. The Memo itself is a bit of a mess using languages to push out responsibility from the building.

Here is the memo -> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_w7XqiHKPerTGI5aGxIX1dFeVU/view?usp=sharing
Can anyone help me decipher the memo? And understand if it does imply for owner to be responsible for this type issues? Do we have any legal ground to fight this? What should we do next? We don't have insurance at the moment.

Thanks for any help or advice!

 

[FarmerJ]

I got it to open by leaving off usp=sharing SO sixth line down is where it starts to address plumbing It does indeed say you are responsible for the repair, Leaks aren't always the easy things one thinks of this is likely not just the simple stuff like water spilled on the floor , its more likely that in a place you cant see for example drain pipes and clean out type traps that may be under things like a bathtub , there really are several possible reasons drain pipes you cant easily see leak such as deteriorated gaskets or washers used in J traps and other types of fittings that are meant to be taken apart for clean out purposes. SO put your nice big apology hat on and take care of this since as you know in then end if you don't the money end just gets worse.

 

[festival]

Here is my understanding:

You are most likely responsible for the repair of the leak, as long as the leak is from the connection of your tub to the drain pipe, which will be determined by the plumber who fixes it.

It is possible that the leak is further down the drain line at a point where the pipe is not your responsibility, so that should be determined by the plumber. The memo states "but shall not include gas, steam, water, or other pipes or conduits within the walls, ceilings, or floors...". I take this to mean you are responsible for the connection of your tub to the drain pipe (including the trap), but not anywhere down the line from there (within the walls...).

I'm assuming this is your drain pipe, but it may also be your supply line, which would be your responsibility. Again, get a plumber to find and fix the leak.

The memo is not complete, and does give a source for this wording. It should be in your governing docs.

If you are responsible for fixing the leak, then you are also responsible for repairing the walls and/or ceilings that had to be cut open to fix the leak, even if those holes are in the unit below your unit.

You are not responsible for the original water damage that resulted from the leak, unless you did something negligent. Based on your post, you did not know about the leak and you did not seem to do anything negligent, so you are not be responsible for water damage in the third floor unit.

However, if you do not repair the leak right away, then you are responsible for any further water damage. Did the super have it fixed? It needs to be fixed right away to prevent further damage and mold.

 

[jinglingxl]

Thanks for your feedbacks.

The whole issue right now is determining who is responsible for this. Basically the super and building did nothing for 2 weeks, and now wanted us to pay for the repair because they point the finger to us being responsible using the letter as their power. I just had a licensed plumber to come to take a look this weekend, and he said leak should be coming from the pipe between 5th (our floor) and 4th floor, which lead to water leak to 3rd floor depending on how the pipe ran inside the wall. He pointed out from his experience, the building 90% of time is responsible to fix pipes inside the wall, and the only way to find the leak and make repair is opening up the ceiling of the 4th floor bathroom since the leak should be between us the 5th floor and 4th floor. He was surprised that the super did not even open up the ceiling of the 4th floor at this point after 3 weeks, and this is negligence on their part.

He also said that any type of repair work in for the building, the contractor should be hired by the management company, not by the owner, because only the building can approve to use the contractor that is properly licensed and insured up to the building requirement.

I spoke to the super again, and asked him to give me an repair estimate detailing the exact problem and the parts and labor that he will be fixing. And the response I got was, it will cost $3500, that is the estimate. I asked him if he can put it all in writing as a repair proposal, and he tells me he will do it only if I agree to hire him!!! And he kept saying he knows exactly the problem and how to fix it, but at this point he haven't even opened the 4th floor bathroom ceiling!! So how does he know for certain? So far for 3 weeks without any action or proof of finding the leak and any attempt to fix, they are threatening us that if there is further damage to 4th or 2nd floor, we will have to pay for that too. Doesn't this sound like extortion? I'm ok to have my plumber open the the ceiling, but it needs the 4th floor permission, but i'm not sure if the building will agree to anything relating to them paying a dime if does turn out to be their responsibility, and also the cost of rebuilding the ceiling for the 4th floor unit.

I'm going to call to the coop manager on the feedback I got from plumber and see what he have to say. He have not returned phone calls or email since last WED to me or the 3rd floor people.

 

[festival]

Contact the board of directors and tell them the story. The super has a conflict of interest, since he wants all that money just to fix a pipe.