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breach of contract

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oprogue

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? North Carolina

We hired and paid in full an individual to re-shingle our house, install a ridge vent and ice shield, replace any damaged wood, and install vinyl siding and windows. He has shingled over our existing shingles (we were under the impression the shingles would be replaced (removal of the old), this is all of the work completed after a year. We have made earnest attempts to contact him for the completion of the job he has been paid for, but he has made our house a secondary priority to other jobs, and hasn't attempted further work. He has also damaged the roof of our front pourch by throwing a bundle of shingles down - busting the plywood and sheet rock. Because of the amount involved (over $9000) we will not be going to small claims court.

How should we proceed? We have lost faith in his ability to complete the job and in his honesty.
 


HomeGuru

Senior Member
oprogue said:
What is the name of your state? North Carolina

We hired and paid in full an individual to re-shingle our house, install a ridge vent and ice shield, replace any damaged wood, and install vinyl siding and windows. He has shingled over our existing shingles (we were under the impression the shingles would be replaced (removal of the old), this is all of the work completed after a year. We have made earnest attempts to contact him for the completion of the job he has been paid for, but he has made our house a secondary priority to other jobs, and hasn't attempted further work. He has also damaged the roof of our front pourch by throwing a bundle of shingles down - busting the plywood and sheet rock. Because of the amount involved (over $9000) we will not be going to small claims court.

How should we proceed? We have lost faith in his ability to complete the job and in his honesty.
**A: did your contract state that the exisitng shingles were going to be removed? Impressions do not count; a written contract does.
Also, is he a licensed roofing contractor?
 

oprogue

Junior Member
The contract states "re-roof" and "replace any faulty sheeting". He is not listed as a licensed roofing contractor, but merely as a "sole proprietor".
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
oprogue said:
The contract states "re-roof" and "replace any faulty sheeting".
**A: then removal was not part of the contract.
*****
He is not listed as a licensed roofing contractor, but merely as a "sole proprietor".
**A: and just where is he listed as a sole proprietor?
 

oprogue

Junior Member
He is listed as sole proprietor on the contract below where he signed his name in the itemized list of terms for the work to be done.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
oprogue said:
He is listed as sole proprietor on the contract below where he signed his name in the itemized list of terms for the work to be done.
**A: No, I meant a listing in some trade association or state contractors list.
 

CowCrazy

Junior Member
My input

State: CA

Have been following this thread, as it "resembles" my plight in some ways. (In this forum, Problems with roof and roofing contractor) And am responding, altho' I almost feel that I am entering an area "where angels fear to tread." :rolleyes:

ONLY from my experience:
1. Have you checked on the internet for info from the contractor's state licensing board? There it might say, sole proprietor, but would also give a license number, as well as insurance and bonding info.
2. Did you get, or the contractor secure, a building permit to do the roof? I had to have one which my contractor did secure. You should be able to get a copy of that permit from your city, and on it should be the contractor's state license number, if, indeed, he is licensed. Could be that without a license, he did not secure a permit.

You mentioned a $9000 figure, IF that was the FULL amount for ALL the work you contracted for, and I have no clue on your state's small claims court limitations, here it is $ 5000. Have you ever looked at the problem this way-----the roof cost X number of dollars, the remaining work for $ XXX. Subtract the roof amount from the total for all the work, as he did do the roof, and go after the remaining uncompleted work via small claims. That line of thinking might work out, and be less costly for you in the big picture. Sharpen your pencil and do some figuring.

These are just thoughts from my experience, NOTHING OFFICIAL, just other ways "around the bush" to secure info and look at your problems.

Good luck.
Cow
 
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oprogue

Junior Member
HomeGuru said:
**A: No, I meant a listing in some trade association or state contractors list.

I am not aware of his involvement with a trade assoiation or to being on a contractors list. He has verbally stated he is a licensed contractor ... We will check more into detail about this.
 

oprogue

Junior Member
CowCrazy said:
State: CA
1. Have you checked on the internet for info from the contractor's state licensing board? There it might say, sole proprietor, but would also give a license number, as well as insurance and bonding info.
2. Did you get, or the contractor secure, a building permit to do the roof? I had to have one which my contractor did secure. You should be able to get a copy of that permit from your city, and on it should be the contractor's state license number, if, indeed, he is licensed. Could be that without a license, he did not secure a permit.

You mentioned a $9000 figure, IF that was the FULL amount for ALL the work you contracted for, and I have no clue on your state's small claims court limitations, here it is $ 5000. Have you ever looked at the problem this way-----the roof cost X number of dollars, the remaining work for $ XXX. Subtract the roof amount from the total for all the work, as he did do the roof, and go after the remaining uncompleted work via small claims.
We are going to check more into the permit and licensing issue, and will see if he is bonded. We've already inquired into small claims, but there is a $5000 limit (as in Ca). In reality I'd rather it not go to small claims as this guy is a fraudulent individual. He needs to be exposed. While he did finish laying the shingles, he did a very poor job (they aren't in alignment at all ... and the ridge row looks like a snake it is so crooked ... crooked as the contractor). He further didn't replace any of the faulty sheeting, nor did he install the ridge vent or the ice shield as indicated in the contract. The amount he qouted for these items was $3800; I did some searching and found the shingles he used at $35/square, which means there was about $1000 in shingles used. He did about $1000 damage to the front pourch from dropping a bag of shingles and hasn't even attempted repairs. Would it be inappropiate or unreasonable to demand a refund less the cost of the incorrectly installed shingles?
 

CowCrazy

Junior Member
Responding

State: CA

Good for you, you seem headed in the right direction, IMHO.

I can surely relate when you mentioned that you felt that the contractor and his "tactics" should be exposed. Have felt the exact same way.

IF, indeed, he is licensed----you can file complaints through the state licensing board, for a starter. My understanding is that they do "heed" these complaints. IF, licensed, you can also make life for him a bit difficult by working through your city's permit department. In my city, they do not hesitate to pull a contractor's ability to do work within the city if they are not reputable.

Don't know, but worth looking into-----could you file in small claims to have him correct the poor roofing job to your satisfaction and according to the contract, with NO amount attached to that, and then get your money back on what he hasn't done on the rest of the work? And still pretty much stay within the small claims court framework, and pretty much recover your $$$$$? These are things I do NOT know, but surely worth looking into. Said it my thread, but check and see if there is a FREE small claims court seminar available to you, if so, go armed with your questions, it would be an excellent starting place, IMHO.

I surely understand how you feel about wanting others to know. In my experience, I could not find an attorney willing to consider my "case" as they were only interested in big buck issues. Hence, why I keep looking at and mentioning small claims court as the alternative. Neither one of us has the huge, huge $$$$ involved (huge to us, but.......all in the eyes of the beholder!)

This is where "investigation" really works in your favor. AND DOCUMENT, if you haven't already, document your every move. I'd even include when I went to the city for info, as an example. Your goal, regardless of how you end up going after the $$$$, is to show the courts that you have done everything in your power to "deal" with this contractor.

Adding a flash thought: Take photos, from all angles, of your roof, and what a shoddy job has been done, include porch damage as well. Photos, it seems to me from my experience, really help your case.

Sorry this is lengthy, but hope that some of my ramblings have given you food for thought.

Good luck and don't give up, explore the options, there are many ways "to skin a cat."

Cow
 
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HomeGuru

Senior Member
oprogue said:
I am not aware of his involvement with a trade assoiation or to being on a contractors list. He has verbally stated he is a licensed contractor ... We will check more into detail about this.

**A: compare what the state consumer protection office advises to do when hiring a contractor with what you did. And never ever accept a verbal from a "licensed" contractor.
 

CowCrazy

Junior Member
Gonna skate on thin ice here

HomeGuru said:
**A: compare what the state consumer protection office advises to do when hiring a contractor with what you did. And never ever accept a verbal from a "licensed" contractor.
IMHO, this is great advice, IF you are just starting a project. We all seem to enter into these kinds of things/projects as a novice, and unfortunately learn the hard way through our experiences.

Forgive me, HomeGuru, for even offering an opinion, but seems to me that there have probably been "mistakes" made along the way, and these people are attempting to find out how to best rectify possible errors and recoop some of their "losses."

Hindsight is always better than foresight, so it is said. I know that in my quest for infomation, I so wanted someone to offer some "thinking" as to how to deal with my problem. I already knew the mistakes I had made, I needed help to get out from under the problems and move on.

Anything that I say is just from experiences that I have had and the ways that I found to be effective in dealing with them.

Am just thinking outloud-----do you "suppose" Mr. Contractor has no funds to purchase the materials to go ahead and finish the job, and could this be the reason for the delay? That in itself brings up another whole avenue to check into----heaven forbid, that he didn't actually "pay" for the shingles that he put on in the first place-----would that possibly mean that some supplier out there could put a lien on your home?? Don't know the answer, but I would surely check that out.

These seemingly, "less than honest" contractors do all kinds of "creative financing" and I suppose you could be a victim of something like that. As an example: he could have used the money that you gave him to purchase stuff for another job in progress. That brings up an issue that I learned at the small claims court seminar-----collection! You might get a judgement in your favor, and you do have to actually do the "collecting" yourself in small claims, therein lies the catch. It is said, "It is hard to get blood out of a turnip!" Altho' numerous angles to collect were suggested at the seminar. You'd have to check on that for what applies in your state, I would think.

In my case, I paid the supplier directly for all materials. Even at that, pretty stupid of me, I let the contractor take the supplies that were not used. Think that stuff was actually my "property" and I should have gotten some kind of refund. Never crossed my mind til way too far down the road. I even "suspect" that I "purchased" supplies for some other upcoming or "in progress" job. You live and you learn.

Hope that "the ice held" as I responded. Don't want to step on any toes, never my intention. I just so feel for people in these kinds of situations and know from experience that you "glean" all kinds of ideas from what others have done or learned along the path.

Best to all, and have a grand day.
Cow
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
CowCrazy said:
IMHO, this is great advice, IF you are just starting a project. We all seem to enter into these kinds of things/projects as a novice, and unfortunately learn the hard way through our experiences.

Forgive me, HomeGuru, for even offering an opinion, but seems to me that there have probably been "mistakes" made along the way, and these people are attempting to find out how to best rectify possible errors and recoop some of their "losses."

**A: you are correct but my responses to writers are two-fold. One, to help the cause and two, to help other readers from making the same mistake in the future.
********
Hindsight is always better than foresight, so it is said. I know that in my quest for infomation, I so wanted someone to offer some "thinking" as to how to deal with my problem. I already knew the mistakes I had made, I needed help to get out from under the problems and move on.

Anything that I say is just from experiences that I have had and the ways that I found to be effective in dealing with them.

Am just thinking outloud-----do you "suppose" Mr. Contractor has no funds to purchase the materials to go ahead and finish the job, and could this be the reason for the delay? That in itself brings up another whole avenue to check into----heaven forbid, that he didn't actually "pay" for the shingles that he put on in the first place-----would that possibly mean that some supplier out there could put a lien on your home?? Don't know the answer, but I would surely check that out.

These seemingly, "less than honest" contractors do all kinds of "creative financing" and I suppose you could be a victim of something like that. As an example: he could have used the money that you gave him to purchase stuff for another job in progress. That brings up an issue that I learned at the small claims court seminar-----collection! You might get a judgement in your favor, and you do have to actually do the "collecting" yourself in small claims, therein lies the catch. It is said, "It is hard to get blood out of a turnip!" Altho' numerous angles to collect were suggested at the seminar. You'd have to check on that for what applies in your state, I would think.

In my case, I paid the supplier directly for all materials. Even at that, pretty stupid of me, I let the contractor take the supplies that were not used. Think that stuff was actually my "property" and I should have gotten some kind of refund. Never crossed my mind til way too far down the road. I even "suspect" that I "purchased" supplies for some other upcoming or "in progress" job. You live and you learn.

Hope that "the ice held" as I responded. Don't want to step on any toes, never my intention. I just so feel for people in these kinds of situations and know from experience that you "glean" all kinds of ideas from what others have done or learned along the path.

Best to all, and have a grand day.
Cow
**A: I am not responding to your issues here on this thread.
 

CowCrazy

Junior Member
I feared "thin ice" correctly

HomeGuru said:
**A: I am not responding to your issues here on this thread.
I feared I was treading on thin ice, and I don't think that in any way did I request any input from you (HomeGuru) on this thread. Sorry, if, in any way, you thought that. For that surely was not my intent. My requests for input were on my own thread. And remain there.

All I have done here is offer "thinking" as to ways to approach the problems from things I have learned elsewhere. If I can save someone a few minutes of time, or offer them some other avenue to explore, then I, in my heart, think that I have been a contributing member of this forum.

And indeed, I learned a great deal from things posted in this forum, and it definitely offers information to explore. And yes, HomeGuru, your reponse was two-fold, and I do think that I acknowledged that. No intent to offend.

Cow
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
CowCrazy said:
I feared I was treading on thin ice, and I don't think that in any way did I request any input from you (HomeGuru) on this thread. Sorry, if, in any way, you thought that. For that surely was not my intent. My requests for input were on my own thread. And remain there.

All I have done here is offer "thinking" as to ways to approach the problems from things I have learned elsewhere. If I can save someone a few minutes of time, or offer them some other avenue to explore, then I, in my heart, think that I have been a contributing member of this forum.

And indeed, I learned a great deal from things posted in this forum, and it definitely offers information to explore. And yes, HomeGuru, your reponse was two-fold, and I do think that I acknowledged that. No intent to offend.

Cow

**A: so, do you want me to respond to your thread? Do you know what "color" to use in your request?
 

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