• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Still accountable for poor cement job after warranty period has passed

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

mkathyf

Member
Ohio.
I will try to describe our situation as clearly as possible.

We own buildings at a local airport which contain hangars for private airplanes.
The buildings are approximately 400 feet long. (each side)
When they were built (prior to us purchasing), 50' cement aprons were poured on each side of each building (so 400' X 50' X 4 sides). I will call them sides A, B, C and D.
The cement on side B has been crumbling for the past several years. We have done cement patches in various places and after this winter nearly the entire apron needs to be replaced.

I met with the original cement contractor, as well as a few other cement contractors, a few years ago to discuss my concern. He said we were past the warranty period and therefore there is nothing they can do to help me.
However, the consensus among all contractors was the same....it was a bad mix.

But, I want to revisit this once again. Even though the warranty period has passed, can they still be held liable to any degree for the bad work? I ask because the other three aprons (A, C, D) they poured at the same time have not crumbled....only the sporadic appearance of some chips and minor cracks as would be expected after such a long time. It is blatantly obvious that side B was an inferior product.
And when I say crumbled...I am not exaggerating...the cement has crumbled into piles of stone.
It is dangerous for the aircraft to have stones on the apron.

We have met with a cement contractor to discuss repairing the most critical areas: it will cost us more than $23,000.00 just to do large patch jobs. Ideally, the entire 400' X 50' apron needs to be replaced.

So, anyone with any court experience with a similar situation....your advice and expertise will be greatly appreciated.
 


justalayman

Senior Member
if you had a shot at this (and not saying you ever did have a shot at it) , it was years ago when you knew not only that there was a problem but what it actually was.
 

mkathyf

Member
I didn't know there was a problem...or what it was...years ago.
Two years ago when I met with the original cement contractor as well as others, THAT is when I found out what the problem was. However, he was sticking to the "past the warranty period" policy and I didn't fight it.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
mkathyf;3258205]I didn't know there was a problem...or what it was...years ago.
yet you said this:

I met with the original cement contractor, as well as a few other cement contractors, a few years ago to discuss my concern

and:


However, the consensus among all contractors was the same....it was a bad mix.

so, how do you claim, now, it was not years ago you knew both there was a problem and it was due to a bad mix?
 

mkathyf

Member
I met them TWO years ago when it was beginning to crumble. The problem has continued to get progressively worse. The original job was done probably 20+ years ago. All the other work they did on our property, which amounts to three other 400' X 50' aprons, has held up fine...just this one is crumbling.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I met them TWO years ago when it was beginning to crumble. The problem has continued to get progressively worse. The original job was done probably 20+ years ago. All the other work they did on our property, which amounts to three other 400' X 50' aprons, has held up fine...just this one is crumbling.
The problem took 18 YEARS to manifest. You are long past the warranty period.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
I met them TWO years ago when it was beginning to crumble. The problem has continued to get progressively worse. The original job was done probably 20+ years ago. All the other work they did on our property, which amounts to three other 400' X 50' aprons, has held up fine...just this one is crumbling.
...wow, just wow.

20+ year old concrete. Are you serious?

I wouldn't even have gone to the "it's out of warranty" statement. I would have looked at you in amazement, hung my head, turned and walked away with an ever increasing level of laughter starting with a low chuckle and building to a raucous guffaw interspersed with "she just can't be serious, this has to be a joke" "I bet the guys at the office are pranking me"
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
I suggest you just reface the concrete instead of replacing it. A pro can clean and epoxy the joints, them give a smooth surface refinish.
 

mkathyf

Member
Thanks for the advice. (the rest of you are just rude). (the warranty is for 20 years)
Refacing is probably not an option. Plus, the cement is 6" thick and crumbled the entire depth.
This is an airport. The cement is crumbling...looks pulverized. All the other cement work they did is fine, with the exception of the expected cracks and some areas that can be refaced.
This section...which I will repeat, is the only section (400' X 50') that is basically disintegrating. All their other work at the airport is fine...which proves that section was a bad mix.
Actually, my driveway, which is probably 45 years old, has held up better.

I appreciate your advice
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Thanks for the advice. (the rest of you are just rude). (the warranty is for 20 years)
Refacing is probably not an option. Plus, the cement is 6" thick and crumbled the entire depth.
This is an airport. The cement is crumbling...looks pulverized. All the other cement work they did is fine, with the exception of the expected cracks and some areas that can be refaced.
This section...which I will repeat, is the only section (400' X 50') that is basically disintegrating. All their other work at the airport is fine...which proves that section was a bad mix.
Actually, my driveway, which is probably 45 years old, has held up better.

I appreciate your advice
A) Your driveway doesn't deal with the weight that an airport does.
B) You have no evidence that the job was wrong.
C) What is the actual usage of the disintegrating portion? How many planes? How many cars? What is the traffic this section has endured over the last 20+ years?
D) It doesn't prove the section was a bad mix. You have no evidence of the traffic it has handled, the care it has been provided, or any other issues endured. There is a lot more that goes into disintegration than just "well everything else held up better so that proves this is crap". No. It doesn't.
E) What are the maintenance records for the entire time the concrete has been in?
F) What evidence do you have that over the past 20+ years it has been properly maintained? Do you have invoices and such to show it?
 

justalayman

Senior Member
so was this slab exposed to the same amount and type of traffic? Was it exposed to identical weather conditions? was it subject to run off from the roof where the others weren't? Was it situated so it was exposed to deicing compound? Salt? Sun?

I cannot imagine how the slab has actually crumbled, the entire depth, unless it was exposed to some very severe conditions. Concrete just setting around and not used is not going to crumble. Mechanical forces imposed upon it are what is going to make it crumble.

and depending on what you are parking on it, 6" isn't very thick at an airport. Aprons for major airports are generally more than 18".




Actually, my driveway, which is probably 45 years old, has held up better.
do you park planes on your driveway? Given the extremely small contact points where the entire weight of a plane is supported by its wheels, there are some tremendous forces imposed. I suspect if you parked planes on your drive it wouldn't hold up well at all.
 

mkathyf

Member
all concrete is exposed to the exact same elements and conditions as the other three sides of the buildings.
no salt or harmful chemicals are ever used, as it will damage the aircraft
these are hangars for private individuals, so, the use is minimal. Some tenants fly regularly, but most fly occasionally.
The aircraft are never parked outside their hangars on the cement.
The cement is not part of the normal taxi way, so the only "traffic" is that of a single aircraft pulling in and out of his/her individual hangar...and the tenants car.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
all concrete is exposed to the exact same elements and conditions as the other three sides of the buildings.
no salt or harmful chemicals are ever used, as it will damage the aircraft
these are hangars for private individuals, so, the use is minimal. Some tenants fly regularly, but most fly occasionally.
The aircraft are never parked outside their hangars on the cement.
The cement is not part of the normal taxi way, so the only "traffic" is that of a single aircraft pulling in and out of his/her individual hangar...and the tenants car.
You can NOT state "all concrete is exposed to the same elements and conditions" -- how many planes TOTAL have driven over each section (broken down by section) over the last 20 years?
How many cars on each section?
How many times has each section been plowed?
De-iced?
Otherwise cleared? Mind you, don't give estimates but actual numbers as to each and every situation per section. Your statement that the concrete is exposed to the exact same elements and conditions is wrong. What is the pitch of the roof? How much run off does each side get? On which side do cars enter? how many trucks? Where are deliveries made? How much weight has each section bore over the last 20+ years?

You want to make a case but quite frankly, you can't. Your statements are naïve.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
mkathyf;3258507]all concrete is exposed to the exact same elements and conditions as the other three sides of the buildings.
impossible, unless you have found someplace on Earth that the sun is directly overhead your building

no salt or harmful chemicals are ever used, as it will damage the aircraft
de-icer is sprayed on aircraft all the time.


these are hangars for private individuals, so, the use is minimal. Some tenants fly regularly, but most fly occasionally.
The aircraft are never parked outside their hangars on the cement.
The cement is not part of the normal taxi way, so the only "traffic" is that of a single aircraft pulling in and out of his/her individual hangar...and the tenants car
but planes do cross this slab, right? so calculate the pressure imposed by those aircraft. You would likely be surprised how much pressure is involved. As Ohiogal asked; what about delivery trucks?

while it is likely there is an issue with the concrete used, it is beyond the warranty period and beyond any period of time that would allow you to make a claim against the delivery company or the engineering company that confirmed the quality of the concrete used (if that is applicable).


and that is presuming any of the parties involved had any duty to you that you could depend on to make a claim. The work wasn't contracted by or for you so you have an issue whether any warranty is even applicable.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top