Creditors and collection agencies, tangled mess

[SinkingFast]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Missouri

I'm trying to help my husband get the paperwork ready so he can file Chapter 7 (filing alone). Because the debts are all from his previous marriage and I'm going strictly on what records his ex gave him (before she destroyed the rest) plus the recent credit reports from the "top 3" I'm having some trouble trying to sort through it all. The ex was in charge of paying bills and keeping track of stuff so my husband isn't able to help much. I've spent countless hours trying to figure out which debts are connected to which. In other words, which collection agencies picked up the debt once the original creditor charged off the debt. In some cases the debt was passed off (sold) to several companies. Our atty says to list the original creditor (and charged off amount) plus the last company that is listed as having the account (and the highest amount shown due).
I'm running into several weird things based on the credit reoports. Here's one I haven't been able to resolve:

Creditor "A" approved a credit card for my husband. After charge off for non-pay, First Select picked up the debt. At first I thought they were another credit card company because I found a letter that read, "Your Creditor A account has been transferred to First Select Corporation, so you will begin receiving monthly statements from us. Your First Select acount number appears above and your new Account Agreement is enclosed. Unfortunately, your Creditor A account was closed for non-payment and the severity of your delinquency places your account in default. However, we assume that all of our customers are honest people and want to repay their debts. Yada, yada, yada..."

After some attempts to collect the debt a law firm supposedly representing First Select sent an "ultimatum" letter ("If you don't pay the full amount within so many days we may have no recourse but to..."). When this didn't produce the desired effect First Select sent some more "statements" (that look like credit card statements) which included steep interest amounts. Then the trail abruptly ends.

After doing some google searches I discovered that First Select Corporation is a company that buys bad debts and that anyone that's had to deal with them had problems. One of the chief complaints I read about is people not being able to contact them (no valid address or phone). I also saw them connected to Providian. I found this interesting because there is a Providian account on my husband's credit reports that he doesn't remember having. After seeing them linked with FSC on the web I carefully compared info between the two accounts as they are listed on the credit reports. What I found is that BOTH Providian and FS show the same "open" dates, the same "close" dates, the same account number (which is the number that FS assigned to my husband), the same amount due and BOTH show a zero balance and the status of having been sold or transferred to another company. They even show almost identical P.O. box numbers from the same town in CA for their addresses. What's even stranger is that the Providian account shows up under the "favorable" credit accounts and the FS shows up under the negative listing. I'm curious about the account being listed with both places during the same time period. Also, when I clicked on the link that mentioned both companies (which was a Providian site) I found no reference to FSC on the page it brought up. When I did a search on the Providian site it brought up no info on FSC.

Now (finally!) to the reason I shared all of that here. Since FSC ceased attempts to collect on this debt and shows that the account was sold or transferred to another company, no further attempts have been made by any company to collect. The amount of debt is $7,200. There is nothing on the credit reports listing anyone (since the FSC "close" date of 05/03) trying to collect that amount or having any reference to this account at all. If the last known reference(s) show the account was sold or transferred then SOMEbody out there has it. My concern is that with the IRS lien ($23,000) showing on the credit reports, some company is just biding their time till it's removed so they can move in for the kill. If we can't list the company that now owns the debt because we don't know who it is will we just be stuck owing it after the Chapter 7 is over?

Another question. My husband thinks the atty will be checking all of these accounts anyway and that it's not necessary for me to spend the time (or stress) doing it now. He thinks I should just list every single one (even though the ones that have been sold show a zero balance) to make sure all of our bases are covered and that the atty will sort it out. My response; yeah, but at how much $$$ per hour and will he be able to connect all the dots? Anyone know how much of the work is typically done by the filer?

Thanks for any help/thoughts,
SF

[Ladynred]

I wouldn't bank AT ALL on your attorney's office doing ANY of the legwork, YOU'RE going to have to do it.

I would say that you should list Providian first, as the original creditor, then list First Select and the lawfirm that sent the 'ultimatum' letter. Since you cannot determine who actually now has it, that's about the best you can do. As long as you list THAT debt, you should be covered.

You might try looking at the inquires too. If there are any inquiries that show up but there are no entries listed for that company, that may be your 'mystery' junk debt buyer.

You *could* try calling First Select and see if they can tell you who they sold it to, not a call I'd want to make, but you really have nothing to worry about from them anyway. Call them from a pay phone if you're hesitant.

[SinkingFast]

Thanks for the reply, Ladynred. These accounts are such a mess they make my head spin after a while. It's imperative that they are all accounted for so no choice but to press on no matter how much they make my brain hurt. (It might not be so bad if I wasn't dealing with several other issues simultaneously)

I'm sorry my post wasn't clearer. The original creditor, Creditor "A", was actually Associates Financial Services. Don't know where Providian came from. No mail whatsoever from them but there they are on the credit report, with a report identical to First Select. This brings the total number of companies associated with this debt to 4. Should I go ahead and list them all and show the latest known balance due the same for each? I was thinking of typing up all references to each account, listing them as such and using them as attachments to Schedule F. At least for the meeting with the atty next Monday.

This is only one of many accounts this way. One I'm currently working on involves at least 4 and shows the same address and phone number for 2 different companies (First USA Bank and Bank One).
I thought the trail of the Texaco card had gone cold but picked it back up at Citi/Shell. The way I discovered that was because I happened to see in very fine print at the bottom of the Texaco statement that the card was issued through Associates Financial Services (which was bought out by the Citi group, according to what I read on the internet last night, so I was able to go from there with it).
I don't remember having to work this hard when I had to file Chapter 7 for myself 10 years ago.

As far as the mystery inquiries, there are quite a few but some of them are connected to some of the accounts but I have no idea whether that's the only reason they are checking. (Some show to be collections but others, though the company is connected with 1 or more of the accounts, don't give a reason as to inquiry)

As for calling 1st Select, ummm...I'll have to sleep on it.

Is this post clear as mud?
Must be time to rest.
Dizzy and Sinking Fast

[Ladynred]

Well, let me make some more mud. First USA and BankOne are the SAME COMPANY. To make it even more complicated, BankOne was recently bought out by Chase.

I knew that Texaco was now Shell - all under the Citi umbrella. All the Texaco stations around here morphed into Shell stations about 2 years ago and my Texaco card was replaced by a Shell card. Citi handles a LOT of retail cards, and that in itself can be confusing the way they are reported.

The maneuverings are mind boggling. I would do as you stated, just list ALL of the companies that appear to be associated with the accounts - better to list all of them than not at all.