Ex's post decree BK & early term. of S/S as offset of equalization pymt.

[irhsprnsiss]

I reside/divorced in California-final divorce judgement was in July 2002. I was ordered to pay TO MY EX equalization pymt. as follows:
"The Respondent(me) owes to the Petitioner(ex) the sum of $12,664 as and for equalization of the community property/debts of the marriage".

Further it states under DIVISION OF COMMUNITY. PROPERTY.:
"Petitioner...is awarded as his sole and separate property as set forth"...
Item 4-"Equalization payment of $6,332.00 FROM (me)the Respondent"
AND
"Respondent (me)...is awarded as her sole and separate prop. as set forth" ... Item 2- "Equalization payment of 6,332.00 PAYABLE to Petitioner".

Then under SPOUSAL SUPPORT:
"Petitioner ordered to pay the Respondent for her support the sum of $XXX/month, commencing July 2001 and TERMINATING on February 1, 2004, AS AN OFFSET TO THE SUMS OWED BY the Respondent(me) TO the Petitioner in the dissolution settlement"...(and spousal support did indeed cease as of Feb. 1, 2004!)

Ok - here are the issue(s) that the insight and knowledge of this forum may provide...in Aug 2004, the EX (Petitioner), filed BK, listing me as a creditor and he was discharged from ALL comm. debt (incurred in our 2nd marriage of 7yrs8mo.). But the problem I am having is the fact that the court ordered an offset/early termination of my spousal support as equalization ($6,332). So, basically HE has been PAID IN FULL by ME for my portion of the comm. debts (as offset of S/S pymts. went to him). Now, how is it that he is able to get payment from me - then file BK? My S/S was never reinstated so I paid, he failed to, and now I can be open game all over again for the creditors/debts? Is he permitted by the laws to retain that equalization FROM me? Or am I able to have him ordered to pay it back to me, as it was originally ordered as S/S? Is this possible and is it info that wld have to be provided to the BK court? Finally is the equalization pymt construed as S/S and therefore not dischargeable, then
potential fraud?

Well-think/hope the jist of what questions, issues and answers are needed is clear enough. If not then please post back and I will clarify a.s.a.p.- .

P.S.- and yes the above quotes are correct as they actually appear on paper. Therefore, judgement's also wrong and contridicts itself - as is states $12,664 as the total sum and yet it is stated 50% @ $6,332 owed (see above). I am open to any info relating on what, how or if there is recourse & if any effect on the judgements validity.

Thankyou so much in advance for any advice, guidance or suggestions that are offered!!!

Thanks Again~

 

[Ladynred]

Spousal support is NOT dischargable in bankruptcy. If he misrepresented the nature of a debt to you that was/is classified as spousal support, then that was fraudulent. Assuming his BK has been discharged, you're a little too late to challenge it.

Whatever community debts that went unpaid that he had discharged in bankruptcy most definitely can come back on you. Those creditors can pursue you for payment.

 

[irhsprnsiss]

Ladynred TY - but in need of a little more help

I would like to say a big THANKYOU to Ladynred for taking the time to read & then reply to my post. I want to make sure to be clear in my interpretation of your reply and apologize for the clarity needed on the following points: (FYI-in my original post there are " " around the exact stmts. verbatim in my final decree)

1) I am aware that Sp. Supp. is NOT dischargable - I was listed by the ex as
a creditor and realizing that this is standard procedure...

Q: Is this due to the shared comm. debt,(regardless of who has been ordered
to pay what in final decree) thereby excludes/prevents the creditor spouse
from suing the debtor spouse for any portion of the comm debt that debtor
spouse is seeking relief of, in BK court?

2) your quote:"If he misrepresented the nature of a debt to you that was/is
classified as spousal support, then that was fraudulent. Assuming his BK
has been discharged, you're a little too late to challenge it."...

Q: Is what your saying basically,(assuming indeed that it WAS FRAUD by my
ex) that since it has already been discharged, it's water under the bridge,
w/o recourse (at least in Federal/BK Court)?

3) your quote: "Whatever community debts that went unpaid that he had
discharged in bankruptcy most definitely can come back on you. Those
creditors can pursue you for payment."...
I understand the issue of exposure/liability to the comm. prop. creditors -
but ALL went unpaid, my ex paid NOTHING after final judgement! He ran
to BK Court (with MY EQUALIZATION/OFFSET PYMT paid by the 14 mo.
EARLY termination of my S/S) So, in actuallity I PAID EX & EX WAS PAID
BY ME IN FULL (through my S/S term.) by the order of Family Law judge,
expressly to be used toward my portion of the same comm. debts he(ex)
now has no further repsonsibility at all to pay ever...

Qa: Since ex retained 14mos. of my S/S (due to its early termination) and
was not used toward the comm. debt at all (BK was 12-14 mos. ago) -
can I seek any recourse through the Family Law court and ask to
reinstate the 14mos. of S/S I was denied?

Qb: Especially now that I am 100% liable for those same comm. debts that
I've already paid my portion of (in full) to my ex?

Again, apologize to Ladynred for the much needed claification of the above-I also welcome any others insight/info/knowledge/thoughts on the issues I have at hand ~ Thanks

 

[Ladynred]

Q: Is this due to the shared comm. debt,(regardless of who has been ordered to pay what in final decree) thereby excludes/prevents the creditor spouse from suing the debtor spouse for any portion of the comm debt that debtor spouse is seeking relief of, in BK court?

Yes, that is exactly why. Although, since you're in the 9th Circuit, ALL prepetition debts are considered discharged even if they're not listed. That was a 9th circuit decision.

Q: Is what your saying basically,(assuming indeed that it WAS FRAUD by my
ex) that since it has already been discharged, it's water under the bridge,
w/o recourse (at least in Federal/BK Court)?

Your time to take action to challenge possible fraudulent behavior was before he got his discharge -- being at his 341 meeting would have been prime because you could bring your issues before the Trustee. While its not impossible to challenge it now, post-discharge, I think you'd have to have one huge provable case to get the court/Trustee to do anything at this point.

a: Since ex retained 14mos. of my S/S (due to its early termination) and was not used toward the comm. debt at all (BK was 12-14 mos. ago) -
can I seek any recourse through the Family Law court and ask to reinstate the 14mos. of S/S I was denied?

That *may* be a possibilty for you. You can't go after him on a discharged debt, but if he is in contempt of the court order issued by family court, you might be able to go after him that way.

Especially now that I am 100% liable for those same comm. debts that I've already paid my portion of (in full) to my ex?

Yes. That's why divorces often end in 2 bankruptcies and even moreso in community property states.

 

[irhsprnsiss]

Ok...I promise the questions will eventually cease!

*Where do I go to obtain copies of ALL the BK papers that my ex filed?

*Is this even a public record issue allowing me to get copies?

*Does the fact that in the original post (where I included the verbage used in the final divorce decree) it is clearly stated that my ex benefited from early termination (14mos.) of his S/S obligation as an offset paid TO HIM for these debts? And that with BK papers to show the debts were NOT paid with that S/S offset, is that viewed as contempt?

*In your opinion is the energy worth it and proof there for cause showing a failure by my ex to use the offset in the manner it was given/ordered in the first place ("equalization pymt of comm. debts")?

*To effect a post dicharge challenge what proof is deemed adequate for a "huge provable case"?

*Does the final decree stating {that EX to RECIEVE and I to PAY this ordered "equalization pymt" by way of S/S offset and thus terminated 14 mos. earlier then what I was by law entitled to}...convey or demonstrate the proof I need for the BK Trustee?

*Is the fact that the S/S offset was a $ benefit to the ex and recieved as unearned income (as it wasnt paid to me, it was retained for debts) cause for ex to have it listed/mentioned at some point on the paperwk?

*AND LAST ? - Geniune opinion, will the BK trustee care the ex was ordered/granted the equalization pymt by me + that was paid via the offset of my S/S?

Mind you we are talking $12k+, he was able to not pay to me under the laws of S/S...(and as he has bought a waverunner, new car, racecar, trailer, gear/accessories, has $1600+ pension paid mo., and overall grosses $7,000+)

I feel that after sending our home into forclosure out of spite (stating he was making the mort. pymt. then I find out 4 mos later NOT!), after lieing and commiting fraud with FALSE P.O.S. of divorce discovery NEVER recieved by me, causing a default against me, after combined(married twice to him) 12+yrs. married I was excluded from all proceedings at trial, loss of pension rights, 401k/stock rights, health ins. rights, ability to dispute the POS he had a coworker sign, and in the midst of this my mother dies (55yrs of HrtAttck)-

I think it is fair to say I struggle each day to provide for both my boys - as I was a stay at home mother for the entire term of marriage. Finally went back to work but still the 14 mo. of S/S would have been a lottery to me. My standard of living has deminished - and that is ok. I have learned to see things as just that "things" - but I wont pretend that the fraud and deception aimed at me was ridiculous. I would very much so like to at least have one opportunity to expose sum of the fraud, commited by the "EX"! However , after all is said and done if the chances are slim or not warranted by a legal basis be free to tell me so...I have learned at least to pick n choose what fights are worth it n whats not!

As usual...I appreciate the time anyone takes to read this post and sorry for the length~

 

[Ladynred]

That's a lot of questions.....

*Where do I go to obtain copies of ALL the BK papers that my ex filed?
*Is this even a public record issue allowing me to get copies?

Bankruptcies are a matter of public record. You can certainly get a copy of his petition. You can either get it from the BK court, or you can get an account on PACER and get it online yourself.

Does the fact that in the original post (where I included the verbage used in the final divorce decree) it is clearly stated that my ex benefited from early termination (14mos.) of his S/S obligation as an offset paid TO HIM for these debts? And that with BK papers to show the debts were NOT paid with that S/S offset, is that viewed as contempt?

Possibly.. he basically took your money and ran - -straight to bk court.

In your opinion is the energy worth it and proof there for cause showing a failure by my ex to use the offset in the manner it was given/ordered in the first place ("equalization pymt of comm. debts")?

I'd say so.

To effect a post dicharge challenge what proof is deemed adequate for a "huge provable case"?

You'd have to have damn good evidence he committed fraud and unfortunatly unless that's more than 100K, they're probably not going to go for it.

Does the final decree stating {that EX to RECIEVE and I to PAY this ordered "equalization pymt" by way of S/S offset and thus terminated 14 mos. earlier then what I was by law entitled to}...convey or demonstrate the proof I need for the BK Trustee?

Probably not.

*Is the fact that the S/S offset was a $ benefit to the ex and recieved as unearned income (as it wasnt paid to me, it was retained for debts) cause for ex to have it listed/mentioned at some point on the paperwk?

Unless he was hiding the money somewhere so it wouldn't show up on his bank statements.. that would have been a no-no - hiding assest - unless he blew the cash .. then what'd he blow it on ??

Think hiding assets, think fraudulent transfers, things like that, things he would NOT want a Trustee to see.

*AND LAST ? - Geniune opinion, will the BK trustee care the ex was ordered/granted the equalization pymt by me + that was paid via the offset of my S/S?

Probably not.

and as he has bought a waverunner, new car, racecar, trailer, gear/accessories, has $1600+ pension paid mo., and overall grosses $7,000+)

OK.. then the question is.. did he declare ALL of those assets on his bankrutpcy schedules ?? If not.. that's fraud. If you can prove it, you might have something. So.. get his BK petition and find out what he listed.