future dental bill - can I list as current expense?

What is the name of your state? MI

I will be filing chapter 7 shortly (pro se). I need about $2000 in dental work which I hope to have done in Jan or Feb 2004. Can I list this on schedule J as a current expenditure ($166 per month)?

Somewhat related question:
I also have a fairly recent personal loan from a relative which I plan on paying back. In fact, I have already made two monthly payments with 22 months to go. Do I list this on Schedule J as an installment payment? Can I pay back one unsecured creditor (my relative) and not others (cc companies)?

Thank you, folks. This really is a great resource and is truly appreciated!

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

[quote]Originally posted by mooner
[b]What is the name of your state? MI

I will be filing chapter 7 shortly (pro se). I need about $2000 in dental work which I hope to have done in Jan or Feb 2004. Can I list this on schedule J as a current expenditure ($166 per month)?

My response: Absolutely. Just make sure the dentist receives notice of your Petition either just before, or during, his work on your teeth.

I'll file this response to you under, "This is one I'd love to see!"



Somewhat related question:
I also have a fairly recent personal loan from a relative which I plan on paying back. In fact, I have already made two monthly payments with 22 months to go. Do I list this on Schedule J as an installment payment? Can I pay back one unsecured creditor (my relative) and not others (cc companies)?

My response: Sure you can, until they start bitching and moaning about it at your 341 hearing, and the Trustee disallows your payments as an unwarranted "preference", denying your request for discharge!




Thank you, folks. This really is a great resource and is truly appreciated!

My response: You're welcome. However, can I come to your lynching? Either the CC companies or the dentist is going to be tying a noose, and one of them is going to kick the chair out from under you.

IAAL

IAAL - Thank you for the reply.

Perhaps I worded my question wrong.

I will be filing chapter 7 hopefully within the next week. The dental work I will be paying for. I have been living with a temporary bridge for over a year. Haven't had the money for a permanent bridge. I have stopped paying my creditors and will be able to afford the dental work by the first of the year. It is an expense I know I will have. So can I prorate it and list it?


The loan from my relative:

I was thinking of reaffirming this debt. In my previous post I did state it was an unsecured personal loan. But I borrowed the money to purchase items which "could be" considered collateral. I guess I would be better off just listing my relative as another unsecured creditor and then paying him back "on the sly" so to speak. I will be paying him back. Just trying to figure out the best way.

You would only include the dental work if it has not been done. Get a complete dental plan for other work and add to budget.

The loan from an insider, the trustee can and will recall all payments made within a year (if over $600 in toal). Why would a trustee do such a thing, (can you say 10% commission).

Your right your relative is screwed, unless you agree on the side to payback (on the sly).

What did you buy with the money and is it proctected with exemptions?

[Ladynred]

The writer does NOT have to pay the relative back 'on the sly'. .however the debt MUST be included in your filing. Unless there is a written loan agreement, you're not going to be able to reaffirm anything. Let the relative know that you're filing and they will be notified as a creditor.. but that you DO intend to pay them back - after your discharge. There is NO prohibition against voluntarily paying back a discharged debt - the creditor, whoever that may be, just cannot do anything that even smells of collection activity should you decide to pay them.

Thank you planner and Ladynred - your replies are truly appreciated!

No, the dental work has not been done. I have been waiting for the funds so I can get it done. Just didn't know if I could add a known one-time future expense to my current list of expenditures.

The loan from my relative: I knew of the $600 ceiling. The 2 payments I have made total $350. Is the $600 written in stone? Can the trustee still ask/demand these payments be returned?

I will be listing this debt and my payments on it. I am being honest and upfront about everything - just trying to arrange things to be in my best interest.

Ladynred is right (of course): After more reading I have found I can voluntarily pay any creditor back. I don't have to do it on the sly. I guess I should have known that. What I don't know is do I have to wait until actual discharge is final before paying on this loan? I thought that up to the day I file everything is part of the estate. But that the day after filing I can (with some exceptions) do whatever I want with any income/assets I may acquire. Can someone clarify this for me?

This should be a no-asset case. The items I purchased with the loan from my relative should be exempt. I actually dread having to tell this relative of my filing more than the actual filing or dealing with the creditors.

Thank you everyone for the replies. If someone could clarify for me the above questions I would certainly appreciate it. Thanks!

The $600 comes from your disclosure on the financial affairs statement.

So, if you paid less than $600 in a year, you don't have to disclose.

[Ladynred]

You are correct, everything BEFORE you file is part of the BK estate. Anything after that is 'yours'. However, its probably not a good idea to start paying out on debt you intend to discharge while you're still in the middle of the BK process. Same for incurring any new debt. You'd be better off waiting until after your discharge to avoid anything looking like fraud.

Thank you everyone. Truly a great resource and very much appreciated!

I was wondering the same thing.. I have a 3200-3600 job coming up within maybe 6 months. I was planning on just adding 100 a month to medical expenses for that which I think is reasonable. I guess we'll see if its allowable, hah...