I won't aske your age but need OLD info

[Rnay]

What is the name of your state? Wisconsin

(Sorry this is so LONG; It needs the details, though)
This may be a dumb question but I think it is worth asking. To answer it, I need someone who recalls or has access to information about Ch. 7 bk laws for WI in 1990-91, which is when we successfully filed Pro Se:

I am aware that getting a hardship discharge of student loans requires practically an act of God nowadays. However, when we did our bk back in 1991 (actually filed on 12/24/90), the Schedule A 'Statement of All Liabilities of Debtor', subsection 1 Creditors Having Priority, they asked about the following as having priority: a) Wages, salary, (etc.) owing to employees; b) Contribution to employees benefit plans; c) Claims of farmers; d) Claims of US fishermen; e) deposits by individuals for things not delivered; f) Taxes owing to the US, to any state or any other taxing authority. At the time we had--and listed--nothing under any of these categories.

Under A-2 was listed GMAC for our car as a Creditor Holding Security. We went to reaffirm it but frankly we had nearly paid it off and it was so old they told us they would write it off, it wasn't worth it to them.

Under A-3 Creditors Having Unsecured Claims Without Priority, among the other various and sundry bills including cc and medical bills was listed by Guaranteed Student Loan, at the amount of $46 K at the time. Nowhere in those old schedules was the distinction of debts for student loans mentioned as having priority claim or being non-dischargeable. We received our discharge in May '91 without any problem.
Anyway, we are facing having to do bk again under a whole new set of circumstances and hurrying to get under way before the new reform law takes effect, although such is my shape that I believe we still qualify under the new law. I am wondering: is it possible that the GSL was supposed to have been included in the 1991 discharge? The GSL has gone from Great Lakes Higher Education to US Dept of ED/Diversified Collections. The discharge letter (somewhat in legalese so hard to interpret) reads that the exceptions given to debts being null and void are "(a) Debts determined to be nondischargeable by the Bankruptcy Court pursuant to Section 523 (a) (2), (4) and (6) of the Bankruptcy Code; and (b) Debts which are nondischargeable pursuant to Section 523 (1), (3), (5), (7), (8), and (9) of the Bankruptcy Code". Did the statutes cited refer at that TIME to student loans, or only to those subcategories I listed above as on the 1990-91 Schedule A?

Did they refer to GSLs? I am being hugely garnished for them, and they have grown to triple the principal over the years with all the interest and penalties tacked on. My husband finally won his appeal for disability in 1994, and they actually determined him disabled back to 1982. But while we had anticipated the retro payment of of the SSI/SSDI we should have been getting instead of the GSLs while I was in school, what we got was the resulting greatly-diminished sum of them only going back a year, less the amount the lawyer got out of it despite my having done all the paperwork and investigation. All he did was represent us at the appeal hearing (and he believed we would lose). We had figured on paying the GSLs off with the retro SSDI and had every intention when we took the loans that they'd get paid at that time. (Word to the wise from our experience: When applying for Social Security and following the reconsideration and appeal process, you must continue reapplying or they don't have to go back much.)

The GSL's date back from 1982-1988, and I seem to also recall something about a possibility of loans older than 10 years being possibly dischargeable...? Anyway, if there is the chance I can get out from under this mountainous debt and do one last bk for other stuff, perhaps I can hope to retire someday and until then to provide for my little family.

And IN CASE ANYONE IS WONDERING and prepared to be critical, the reason I have that much in loans and education and have trouble making a living now? My graduate program was terminated by the university so I was unable to finish up. So I paid for a masters and only got a bachelors out of it. So please refrain from flaming me...?

[Rnay]

Bumping my thread in hopes of help.

Please don't tell me I'm the only old fart on here!

[HomeGuru]

Ok, I am an old fart too.

[Rnay]

BTW, homeguru, my nephew once referred to one poor old man as being "so old he farts dust"! Hopefully we're not quite there.

Just hoping it is remotely possible that the old GSLs coulda or shoulda been discharged back in 1991. We did our bk Pro Se and we were lucky enough to have succeeded despite having not researched as much as I am doing for this go round.

[Ladynred]

Do you have copies of your BK case still ?

Its been very tough for people with OLD loans (and yes, I'm an 'old fart' too.. lol) and old BK's to get out from under, even though they may have BEEN discharged. It seems the lenders can't seem to see back PAST the latest reforms that make student loans non-dischargeable except in extreme cases. I read a very long account once of a guy who is a lawyer fighting a similar battle as yourself. He spent a lot of time and money fighting.. and still lost.

Definitely not easy, you need a copy of the OLD BK code at the very least.

Maybe AttorneyOney will have some input here.

[Rnay]

But bumping this question in hopes Attorney Oney or someone can shed some light.

In case the first post is too lengthy I will try to summarize:

From 1990-91 (when I posted for Chapter 7 bk), since Guaranteed Student Loans were listed in the schedules under non-secured claims not having priority, are the chances reasonable that they may be included in the discharge? What did 523 of the US bk code say about GSLs back then?

Thanks for bearing with me, those who have already seen this thread...

[Rnay]

Please refer to this question. It is urgent!!!

[Ladynred]

I suspect AttorneyOney is one very busy lawyer right now.

I did some digging and found some info you may be able to use, I hope it helps.

This case regarding dischargability of student loans was filed in 1993 and has numerous references to the earlier bankrupty code.

[url]http://www.bklaw.com/pilcher.html[/url]

I dug up some other tidbits:

The basic actions a school must take are covered here, in "Dear Colleague" letter GEN-90-41, dated December 1990, and in Section 674.49 of the November 30, 1987 regulations as amended by the regulations
published in the Federal Register on July 21, 1992 and November
30, 1994.

Not sure if the Federal Register that old is on line but it surely would be in a library.

Changes in bankruptcy law reflected in 7/21/92 regulations
Section 674.49 of the regulations published in the Federal Register
on July 21, 1992 includes the provisions of the Crime Control Act
of 1990 that extend from 5 years to 7 years the period of time in
which a borrower cannot have a loan discharged for chapter 7, 11,
12, and 13 bankruptcies, and provide that an SFA loan is
dischargeable during that same 7-year period only if the borrower
proves that repayment would constitute an undue hardship. The
July 21, 1992 regulations also reflect the changes made to the
Bankruptcy Code by section 3007 of the Omnibus Budget
Reconciliation Act of 1990; the regulations provide that a
discharge under 1328(a) of the Bankruptcy Code does not
discharge an education loan unless the loan entered the repayment
period more than 7 years, excluding periods of deferment, before
the filing of the petition.

Here is another case regarding a loan made back then that may have references that can help you : [url]http://www.canb.uscourts.gov/canb/Documents.nsf/0/619d8dff8714d39b88256b8f0068e913?OpenDocument[/url]

If I find anything else I'll post it.

[Rnay]

I think based on what I am reading I have a shot now, slim but nonetheless a shot. At the time of 1990-91 bk, the loans were still within that 7 year window (originated 1982-88) While I think we may have qualified for a hardship discharge at the time, I was unaware one had to request that separately and we went pro se so no one was around to tell me. There was no adversary hearing, by the way, and no one showed up regarding the loans so at the time I thought that meant they were discharged. However, since I did not file specifically requesting discharge of my GSLs due to hardship, I am pretty sure now that they did survive.

I can't do a thing after the fact. However, these loans are now 16 years old which seems to meet major criteria, their cumulative total has doubled in size, and the amount now being garnished, while it is devastating to our family budget, doesn't even cover the interest on this beast. The school I went to dropped the masters program I was under so I was unable to graduate and obviously couldn't take any more loans (even if I wanted to) in order to take a different program. My projected future earnings--short of a miraculous event-- will never be enough to be able to put even a dent in these loans. I have a disabled spouse and a child with ongoing health problems, so available income is laughable.

Please don't anyone think I took out the loans intending never to pay them. As I stated in first post, we honestly thought my husband's retro Social Security would pay them off once he proved his disability. If he had been getting the SSI/SSDI when I was in school, we would not obviously have needed any loans.

At this point, since we need to file Ch7 bk anyway due to other stuff, I am thinking it is worth trying.

Unless we win the $180 million Powerball tonight, in which case once I get my money I will ride in high style to the creditor's address and pay all these dang loans off... in singles...

[Ladynred]

Unless we win the $180 million Powerball tonight, in which case once I get my money I will ride in high style to the creditor's address and pay all these dang loans off... in singles.

That I'd like to see.. ROFL !!

Anyway.. glad I could help to some degree.. GOOD LUCK !