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buyer wil not pay, will not contact!

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CamMan

Guest
buyer will not pay, will not contact!

Washington State. I sold a car to my brothers girlfriend (I know, I know!), she was to make payments on my loan, but has been very sporadic. She pays me, I pay the bank, that is how it was supposed to work. Currently she is overdue AGAIN. She will not return phone calls, is very late on payments.

I have an extremely detailed, and signed, contract and at this point I am entitled to take the car back. This is my intent.

The contract states that payment is due on the 10th, and late fees will apply daily until the 15th, at which time the contract is broken. If the contract is broken, the car is to be returned immediately, and all money owed to date is to be paid. At this point, the money would be helpfull, but I am really only interested in the car.

Police say it is a civil matter and I cannot report the car stolen. I cannot afford lawyer and court costs. I just want the car back and be out of this headache!

Am I within my rights to retrieve the car myself? Can I get in a drive away? Would this be considered theft, even though my contract clearly states that the car is now the possesion of the legal owner (my wife)?

The contract lists each line (rule) seperately and specifies after EACH ONE that if it is not followed, I can take the car back. It is signed by her, myself, and my wife (who is the legal owner). She is late (first thing), is driving the car after the 15th without making a payment (second thing), has not supplied copies of proof of insurance and repair work that she said was done (third thing) and has not delivered previous payments in the car so I can inspect for damage and record miliage, etc (fourth thing). All of these are spelled out clearly in the contract, and the failure to comply with ANY of them is to result in my repossessing the car.

Where do I stand? I need to know what I have to do to take this car back, as she is not being cooperative in anyway, even as far as willingly trying to stay away from me.
 
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racer72

Senior Member
Yes, you may retrieve the car. Just take your spare key (you kept one didn't you) and go get it. You may also wish to contact the local police and let them know that you are repossessing a car and give them the info about the car. This will help in two ways, if the car is reported stolen, you won't be pulled over while driving the car. And if an officer doesn't have much to do, he may go with you just to make sure nothing happens.
 
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CamMan

Guest
racer, thank you very much. I was thinking this was the way to go, but was not sure.

I have the original signed contract, as well as a letter to be delivered when I take the car which states every reason in detail that the contract was broken, the last receipt I gave her which states that an additional amount of money was still owed and was and is late, also a notice from the DOT that says someone called the BE-A-HERO number and reported the car being driven illegally in the HOV lanes (this put my wifes name in the states computers as having committed this crime).

I also have printed out several articles from this web site that spell out what a contract is, what makes a contract binding, how a breach occurs, and what can be done in the event of breach.

I think I am pretty well covered. Yes, I have had the key on my keychain for about 4 montha now, ever sinse this all started. I guess I just have to wait until the opportunity arises to retrieve the car.
 

JETX

Senior Member
My $0.02 worth....

First, I agree completely with Racer.

And would like to add the following comments:

1) You never really 'sold' the car as claimed in your first post. You said, "She pays me, I pay the bank, that is how it was supposed to work."
If this car is still being financed, the bank has the title (with lien). So, for all intents, she is 'renting' the car from you for an amount equal to the payment. As such, depending on the wording of our 'contract', it probably has little, if any, legal standing. At best, this is 'sort of' a 'contract for title'. So, since the title (and ownership) is still in your name, you have every right to recover the car.

2) Be careful about your 'recovery', you are not allowed to 'breach the peace' when you get the car back. This means that you can't enter a private garage, can't stop them by force on the street, etc. (in some states, you are prohibited from taking the vehicle from their private driveway). Be careful, be smart. Don't try to take it at night (repo people have been shot), don't try to be 'sneaky'. If need to, follow them to the store or work and take it when it is empty. Also, most states require that you perform an inventory of ALL contents of the vehicle and contact the person with instructions on how to recover their property.

3) The day that you recover the car, take extensive video or pictures of the car. You want to document its condition on recovery to; (1) protect you from claims of damage by the 'renter' and (2) to support your potential claim for damages if any. If the car is damaged, consider taking the 'renter' to court.
 
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CamMan

Guest
Okay, here is the latest.

I got a message from the buyer, and it gave me a clue that she was at her parents house. I went straight there and the car was there. I was on the phone with the Police at that time calling them to notify them that I was about to reposses the car, however, I was unable to give them the address because I don't know it, and no one was about to give it to me! She came out, along with my brother and her father, all who were very upset that I was here for the car. She immediately got in it and tore the pavement getting away. I gave her father an envelope with the reasons that car was going to be repossessed and I left, because he and my brother were getting very upset and I knew about that "breach of peace" deal and didn't want to cause any troubles. Her father threatened to call the Police if I didn't leave and stop coming by the house looking for her. I belive I am within my rights to continue to contact her last known residence in an attempt to contact the buyer and retrieve the car.

I went straight home and collected all my documents, the original contract, the notice from the DOT of some violation she had committed, and a copy of the paperwork in the envelope that I had given to her father, as well as a copy of the last receipt showing that she was still late on her payments as of last month.

I called the Police from home and asked what I had to do to report this car stolen. Of course, with a contract, it becomes a civil matter and they cannot intervene. The officer said I had to take it to court and get a judgement.

They did say that they could be there when I go back to keep the peace, but they cannot force them to give the car back. That is great, but it has been a great while sinse I had seen the car last and now that they know I am looking for it I doubt I will see it again at all.

I also saw that a taillight was badly broken and was barely hanging on, and other damage they had done to the car had not yet been repaired. The contract says that this is a deal-breaker, so I have more to add to my list of reasons, I guess. It is a low miles, very clean, factory hot-rod basically, and this only makes me more upset that they are causing damage to it.

I am very frustrated and only want to get the car back. She had mentioned in the message she left that she would bring the money she owed me on Tuesday night, although I seriously doubt we will ee her now. At least this will give me even MORE firepower, with another late payment.

Please, please, please, I need to know what to do!
 
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CamMan

Guest
Another thought.

I am willing to admit that my credit is pretty bad due to past mistakes. My wife is going to call the bank in the morning to find out what happens in the event that we may decide to do a voluntary repossession. I realise that this will screw up our credit even more, not to mention the possibility of the car going for less than is owed at auction.

If the bank does go forward with a voluntary repossession, what will happen? Will the police now get involved? I would like them to.

At this point, the whole problem is not really causing us any financial problems, but the buyer broke the contract and has been lying to us, and having her parents lie to cover her, and she is obviously not willing to cooperate. It's now about principle and I want to remove the car from her possession. My credit rating, at this point, is not as important to me as her no longer having the car and making this whle situation right.
 
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JETX

Senior Member
CamMan said:
Okay, here is the latest.

She came out, along with my brother and her father, all who were very upset that I was here for the car. She immediately got in it and tore the pavement getting away. I gave her father an envelope with the reasons that car was going to be repossessed and I left....

Please, please, please, I need to know what to do!
Well, you pretty much blew that one!!

Never, ever, ever let the person know that you are after the car. When you first arrived at the house and saw the car in the driveway, you should have gotten in the car and driven it away, then stopped a mile or so away and called the police. That is what I suggested. By letting them know that you are after the car, I predict it will be a LONG time, if ever, before you see the car again!
 
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CamMan

Guest
Yes, I am thinking the same thing. At least they are running scared. That is some consolation for the fact that this will be a headache for a while.

The buyer has known for a while that I wanted the car, I have been hinting at it and using it as a threat for a long time ("make the payment or I will have to find someone that CAN...") stuff like that.

The difference is, now they KNOW I am serious and ready to recover it.

I think it is time for court.

If I get a court judgement, will the police be able to get involved?
 

JETX

Senior Member
CamMan said:
If I get a court judgement, will the police be able to get involved?
No.

Now, here is your problem. Most small claims courts are money courts only, meaning that you can only get money judgments from them. This means that, after you go to court and prove your case, the court will award you the MONEY you are owed and not the vehicle.

Then, when you send the sheriff on an Writ of Execution to seize assets, he might recover the vehicle (if non-exempt by state law). If he seizes the vehicle, he will auction it off and then pay you your MONEY judgment. Any excess over the amount of the judgment would be returned to her.

Your best bet is to still recover the vehicle. You have just made it a whole lot harder to do.
Quit playing games and get serious about this if you are going to do anything. (And yes, this 'hinting' and 'threats' are just childish games. And your threat of "make the payment or I will have to find someone that CAN...") stuff could put you in a bad criminal situation.

Get serious and handle your business. And never, telegraph your actions!!
 
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CamMan

Guest
Would the award of money (only) from the court still be held to, even if the contract states a MINIMUM of 10 times that any breach will result in RETRIEVEL of the car by the seller?

I know I screwed up, and my only excuse is that my heart was beating about a zillion times a minute and I probably wasn't thinking clearly, I was just so excited to finally see the car, I was completely unprepared, and I should have just kept driving.

I have no doubt in my mind that I am in the right. I only want the car back, as the contract was written. If I have no choice but to take the car back myself, then I wll have to do that, but if I can do it through a court, I would be much more comfortable.
 

JETX

Senior Member
As I see it, you have the following choices:
1) Forget about the car and give it to her, or
2) Wait a while and try to recover the car (being smart this time), or
3) Filing your case in small claims court get a judgment for RECOVERY OF MONEY ONLY up to $4,000.
4) File in a higher court (expensive, need attorney) to try to recover the vehicle.

Bottom line... you put yourself in this position and will now need to decide what is best to try to recover.

Here is a link to WA small claims (it clearly says MONY ONLY):
http://www.courts.wa.gov/brochure/scc/
 

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