Car Lien & Title

[confusednfl]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida.

I purchased a car from a private individual. He had purchased the car from a dealer. The title work has never been transferred into the individual's name, or into mine. Some investigating has found out the individual wrote a bad check for the car to the dealer. Said dealer in turn reported car to their insurance company. Insurance company compensated the dealer. Insurance company never reported the car as stolen in the "registry of stolen cars", so I am unable to turn it into the police and file a police report against the individual who sold me the car. So I have a car I cannot tag/title and I am out $5000+. The insurance company has been informed the car is located, the dealership tried to "buy it back" from the insurance company to work a deal out for me on it, however the insurance company said no, the car needs to be turned into the police. The police basically said they can't do anything without it being reported as stolen in the system.

Long story short, is it legal for me to file a lien on the vehicle since I bought it in good faith that I would get a title? I would like to sell the car in hopes to recoup some of my money, I've had several offers on it. But sadly, the car is just sitting in my driveway deteriorating. Is there anything I can do?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Actually it is your fault. You paid someone for a car, with getting the title transferred upon sale. Your recourse is to sue the person who sold it to you illegally.

 

[confusednfl]

The person who sold it to me said he would transfer the title. There is a fee for it on the bill of sale. He claimed he was a private dealer. He was actually a scam artist. He is currently in jail facing prison time for the 3rd time in his life for the same thing. This just happens to be the only vehicle that nobody is "looking" for. All of the other vehicle he sold over the past 8 months were recovered and returned to the dealerships/owners. The dealership can't take this one because they were compensated by their insurance company. The insurance company has never reported it stolen. I'm just trying to get it off my hands.

 

[BL]

So the dealer has the title .The dealer has been compensated.

The dealer claims they can not take it back.

Fine. Get the title from the dealer turned over in your name ,tag & drive it.

 

[confusednfl]

The dealer doesn't have the title either. When the police looked up the vin, it was showing as the owner who traded it to the dealer. The dealer sold it the day after it was traded in to the person who sold it to me. Since their check was bad, the title work never was processed to change the registered owner. Could I apply for a duplicate title as an individual or can only dealers/mechanics do it? I'm basically wanting to know is there a way to make the car legally mine? I don't want to do anything illegal, but I don't want the car to just sit in my driveway unable to be driven for a year. I've had the car since November 2012. I found out in March 2013 what really happened with the person who sold it to me illegally. I've been trying for 2 months to turn the car in, but it seems the insurance company has dropped the ball.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

The car has a title. What is the name on it? Is there a lien attached? What is stopping the person who sold you the car, if the title is in their name, from obtaining a duplicate title and transferring it to you?

 

[justalayman]

Is there anything I can do?

yes. sue the guy that sold it to you.

The dealer doesn't have the title either. When the police looked up the vin, it was showing as the owner who traded it to the dealer.

that's because the title is never transferred into the dealers name. They are allowed to accept and assign the title without ever putting it into their name.

"
actually, the guy that "bought" the car has a legal claim to it since he has a contract showing he purchased it and apparently the dealer nor insurance company are interested in reclaiming the car. Until they do, the car does belong to the guy you sold it to and after that, you.

So, the guy you bought it from has to title it in his name and then he can transfer it to you.

another possibility would be for you to check to see if Florida has a bonded title. The bad part about that is a bond is not simply an insurance policy. It acts like an insurance policy as the bonding company would pay a claim for the value of the car to a valid claimant but after that, they will go after you to repay them. If nobody ever makes a claim for the car (and at this time, the insurance company is the only entity that has the right to do that), everything is fine.

 

[confusednfl]

The man who bought the car is in jail - facing 10-20 years of prison if he's convicted for all the fraud he has committed in the past year. I know he no longer has the documents from where he "bought" the car. And today, I've come home to a letter from code enforcement with a notice to appear at a hearing regarding the violation I have now received from having a tagless vehicle in my driveway. This mess keeps getting bigger and bigger. I can't tag it, I can't drive it somewhere else or pay to store a vehicle that doesn't belong to me. If I could get a title, I'd tag it and everything would be fine. The detectives at the police department working on the cases against the man who sold it to me are clueless as to what I should do. They just keep telling me to wait, and now I've gotten a code violation from waiting. Sorry, venting. So frustrated!

 

[BL]

The man who bought the car is in jail - facing 10-20 years of prison if he's convicted for all the fraud he has committed in the past year. I know he no longer has the documents from where he "bought" the car. And today, I've come home to a letter from code enforcement with a notice to appear at a hearing regarding the violation I have now received from having a tagless vehicle in my driveway. This mess keeps getting bigger and bigger. I can't tag it, I can't drive it somewhere else or pay to store a vehicle that doesn't belong to me. If I could get a title, I'd tag it and everything would be fine. The detectives at the police department working on the cases against the man who sold it to me are clueless as to what I should do. They just keep telling me to wait, and now I've gotten a code violation from waiting. Sorry, venting. So frustrated!

The dealer sold it the day after it was traded in to the person who sold it to me. Since their check was bad, the title work never was processed to change the registered owner.

What's wrong with backtracking from the dealer or DMV to the person that traded it in and have them file for a duplicate at your expense and transfer to you , since the title was never transferred from the dealer to the person they sold it to,that sold it to you ?

 

[LdiJ]

What's wrong with backtracking from the dealer or DMV to the person that traded it in and have them file for a duplicate at your expense and transfer to you , since the title was never transferred from the dealer to the person they sold it to,that sold it to you ?

That is certainly worth trying...although I could see that person being unwilling to get involved, because its such a convoluted situation. I would certainly think twice. Technically I think that the car would belong to the insurance company at this time.

 

[BL]

That is certainly worth trying...although I could see that person being unwilling to get involved, because its such a convoluted situation. I would certainly think twice. Technically I think that the car would belong to the insurance company at this time.

Well ,yes the ins. Co. wants it turned over to the police ,although the police won't take it as stolen because no reports.

I'm not sure it could actually be reported as stolen.

The ins. Co. knows where the vehicle is , they are not picking it up.

Maybe the poster should contact the ins. Co. again.

In the end the poster may be out of the vehicle and money.

If it gets towed , then it will be out of the poster's hands anyways.

 

[justalayman]

BL;3174006]Well ,yes the ins. Co. wants it turned over to the police ,although the police won't take it as stolen because no reports.

I'm not sure it could actually be reported as stolen

you are probably correct because it isn't a stolen vehicle. The guy bought it from the dealer. Now, he is in breach of the contract since he hasn't actually paid though. There could be some criminal charges due to the bad check issue but the car is not considered stolen.

Maybe the poster should contact the ins. Co. again.

In the end the poster may be out of the vehicle and money.

two words:


BONDED TITLE

 

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by BL
What's wrong with backtracking from the dealer or DMV to the person that traded it in and have them file for a duplicate at your expense and transfer to you , since the title was never transferred from the dealer to the person they sold it to,that sold it to you ? .

that would be fraud. The guy that sold the vehicle to the dealer no longer has any claim on the vehicle and him selling it, again, would be illegal. Even if one wants to argue it wouldn't be because he didn't actually "sell" it to the OP, the fact is; he has no legal right to express any control over the title. He relinquished it to the dealer and that is where his rights to do anything stop.

Technically I think that the car would belong to the insurance company at this time

why? The guy in jail bought the car. He owned it and he sold it to the OP. I don't know why the insurance company would have even paid the dealer for this. There was a bad deal where the dealer got stiffed on a bad check. That means the car is not stolen. All it means if the dealer got a bad check. If they wanted the money, generally they would have had to go after the check writer. Why the insurance company paid out is beyond me.

Now, there may have been contractual restrictions that prevented the guy from selling to the OP but so far, nobody has suggested it even might be the case.

 

[LdiJ]

that would be fraud. The guy that sold the vehicle to the dealer no longer has any claim on the vehicle and him selling it, again, would be illegal. Even if one wants to argue it wouldn't be because he didn't actually "sell" it to the OP, the fact is; he has no legal right to express any control over the title. He relinquished it to the dealer and that is where his rights to do anything stop.



why? The guy in jail bought the car. He owned it and he sold it to the OP. I don't know why the insurance company would have even paid the dealer for this. There was a bad deal where the dealer got stiffed on a bad check. That means the car is not stolen. All it means if the dealer got a bad check. If they wanted the money, generally they would have had to go after the check writer. Why the insurance company paid out is beyond me.

Now, there may have been contractual restrictions that prevented the guy from selling to the OP but so far, nobody has suggested it even might be the case.

The bolded is a very good point. However most dealer sales contracts require a car to be returned to the dealer if financing falls through (and I assume that a check bouncing would count as financing falling through) so maybe the fact that it wasn't returned changed it from civil to criminal. Obviously the seller is in jail at the moment facing multiple fraud charges for similar acts.

It certainly is a convoluted mess and I don't see much chance of the OP coming out of this whole.

 

[latigo]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida.

I purchased a car from a private individual. He had purchased the car from a dealer. The title work has never been transferred into the individual's name, or into mine. Some investigating has found out the individual wrote a bad check for the car to the dealer. Said dealer in turn reported car to their insurance company. Insurance company compensated the dealer. Insurance company never reported the car as stolen in the "registry of stolen cars", so I am unable to turn it into the police and file a police report against the individual who sold me the car. So I have a car I cannot tag/title and I am out $5000+. The insurance company has been informed the car is located, the dealership tried to "buy it back" from the insurance company to work a deal out for me on it, however the insurance company said no, the car needs to be turned into the police. The police basically said they can't do anything without it being reported as stolen in the system.

Long story short, is it legal for me to file a lien on the vehicle since I bought it in good faith that I would get a title? I would like to sell the car in hopes to recoup some of my money, I've had several offers on it. But sadly, the car is just sitting in my driveway deteriorating. Is there anything I can do?

Forget about placing a “lien” on the vehicle. It ain’t there. Just take my word for that, please.

However, what you might do is to speak with a knowledgeable Florida attorney to learn whether or not Florida recognizes an action to quiet title to personal property. Many states do, but I can’t seem to find whether or not it is available in your state.

It is my understanding that such an action was permitted at common law and that Florida is a common law state. So discuss this with the attorney.