Car sale confusion

[jennbry]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida is the name of my state. I bought, or so I thought I did, a car over a month ago. I have a contract, paid a down payment, took possession of the car. My temp tag expired a few days ago and I've been trying to find out how to get my permanent tag. I call the dmv, they tell me to call the dealership who tells me to come in for an extended tag....ya right, I get there and they say they will not title the car, there is no deal, the fincning didn't go through and they tell me I best not think I'm leaving there in the car, after I had to fight them not to physically snatch the temp tag I had out of my hand. I left, in my other car, hadnt driven the new one down there....expired tag, duh!

After further talking to the dmv, they say I can force them to title the car, they say they want the car back, they say they will reiburse my down payment, first they said by check, then they said they would by crediting my card. They flat out refuse to give me anything in writing. I checked the contract thouroughly, it has a box that gives them an option to cancel sale, that box was marked n/a

 

[JustAPal00]

You might as well return the car. If the financing was turned down it's not yours. Some times dealers will let you leave in the car even if they aren't 100% sure it will go through so that you don't leave and continue to look at other dealers. It also completes one part of the sale, the delivery. They have to give you all your money back. Just look at it like this, you got to drive a new car for a month for free. While you're there, you might want to talk to the finance guy to find out what the problem was. You must have been close to getting approved or they would have said no when you were there to buy it.

 

[justalayman]

you can either pay for the car or return it. Unless they did something really dumb, the financing you applied for is not guaranteed. That means if the financing they were sourcing for you does not pan out, you will need to find your own financing or return the car.

and yes, get something in writing before you relinquish the car.

 

[jennbry]

still confused

So if they fail to fill out the contract and assume the loan themselves, they can just decide to say "we don't like it now, it's over"? You all know damn well if we decided we didn't like the terms of a contract it wouldn't work that way once we signed it. How come they can change their minds, I know they did not fill it out properly, that is the problem, you would not believe the conversations I am having with this people, they are basically acting like little kids stomping their feet and hanging up.

I also know they will not return the money without a fight, especially if I get nothing in writing and they won't give me anything. They said they were calling their legal department and I asked them to please do, then I will have the piece of paper I want.

 

[JustAPal00]

So if they fail to fill out the contract and assume the loan themselves, they can just decide to say "we don't like it now, it's over"? You all know damn well if we decided we didn't like the terms of a contract it wouldn't work that way once we signed it. How come they can change their minds, I know they did not fill it out properly, that is the problem, you would not believe the conversations I am having with this people, they are basically acting like little kids stomping their feet and hanging up.

I also know they will not return the money without a fight, especially if I get nothing in writing and they won't give me anything. They said they were calling their legal department and I asked them to please do, then I will have the piece of paper I want.

You don't understand! They're not backing out! You can have the car for the price you signed for as soon as you pay for it. They were unable to obtain financing for you so you have to do it for yourself. You can either go to the bank and get a loan or you can pay them cash. Whichever is easier for you. If however you can't get a bank to loan you the money and you don't have enough cash in your account to pay for it, then you have to give the car back. You're wrong about the money though. They have to return every penny. This was not a car rental agreement, it was a purchase. As long as you told them the truth and didn't do anything to ruin your credit after you signed the financing forms this was not your fault! But unless you can come up with ALL the money now, you must give the car back. If you try to keep it, it can get very sticky for you.

 

[jennbry]

You don't understand! They're not backing out! You can have the car for the price you signed for as soon as you pay for it. They were unable to obtain financing for you so you have to do it for yourself. You can either go to the bank and get a loan or you can pay them cash. Whichever is easier for you. If however you can't get a bank to loan you the money and you don't have enough cash in your account to pay for it, then you have to give the car back. You're wrong about the money though. They have to return every penny. This was not a car rental agreement, it was a purchase. As long as you told them the truth and didn't do anything to ruin your credit after you signed the financing forms this was not your fault! But unless you can come up with ALL the money now, you must give the car back. If you try to keep it, it can get very sticky for you.

I dunno, I certainly am doing nothing without a written reason. That would be plain stupid of me and I'm not sure if you are a lawyer, but I have had two lawyers advise me not to. I understand what you are saying, but they are listed as the creditor on the contract. They did not say it was subject to third party approval and they did not activate the seller's right to cancel. They themselves kept the loan for themselves. They assumed the loan for themselve in hopes of selling it, only problem is they filled out the paperwork wrong not allowing themselves that "out". That box is there for a reason or it wouldn't be there. Dealerships finance loans all the time!!! And when they do they write contracts between the buyer and themselves, loan terms etc....this is what I got. The thing that makes me angry is that if I decided I couldn't sell the car for a profit and decided that I wanted to break the contract for that reason, I would not be allowed to.

There is no provision in the contract that allows this, if someone can tell me of a law or where the provision is, I will then believe it. They do have a provision in there entitling them to sell the loan, but not to just turn their back on it if they can't sell it, well the provision is there, but marked N/A and as I was just told by an attorney, not applicable, means not applicable.

Basically it's the same as if your bank or mortgage company wanted to sell your mortgage and profit off of it, and they could do this, it's done all the time, but they couldn't find someone to sell it too or make more money off it, they then turn around and tell you it's not good and they dont want to do it, move out! Can't be done, that's why we have contracts in the first place.

And they are offering no options of outside financing or anything, they want the car badly and they are refusing to tag and tile it, I have to force them to through the DMV. I know they did something wrong, possibly they didn't have the right to sell the car? But they are not talking to me, only threatening me and when I ask them to explain, they hang up.

 

[justalayman]

Dealerships finance loans all the time!!!

On used cars; yes, there a lot of buy here pay here lots

On new cars; never seen a dealership that provides their own financing.

So, did you fill out a loan application or the paperwork for the actual loan? If merely an application, especially as the creditor, they would have every right to refuse to extend credit to you based upon information discovered during the credit check.

Basically it's the same as if your bank or mortgage company wanted to sell your mortgage and profit off of it, and they could do this, it's done all the time, but they couldn't find someone to sell it too or make more money off it, they then turn around and tell you it's not good and they dont want to do it, move out! Can't be done, that's why we have contracts in the first place.

You're right. Once the mortgage paperwork is finalized, the loan is yours and the lender is bound by the contract. Up to the moment both parties sign acceptance, there is no binding on either party. So, was your paperwork an application of was it the actual loan documents?

. I know they did something wrong, possibly they didn't have the right to sell the car?

For your sake, I would hope not since that would kill any argument you might have to continue the deal. If they had no legal right to sell it, they surely couldn't sell it to you.

 

[jennbry]

On used cars; yes, there a lot of buy here pay here lots

On new cars; never seen a dealership that provides their own financing.

So, did you fill out a loan application or the paperwork for the actual loan? If merely an application, especially as the creditor, they would have every right to refuse to extend credit to you based upon information discovered during the credit check.

You're right. Once the mortgage paperwork is finalized, the loan is yours and the lender is bound by the contract. Up to the moment both parties sign acceptance, there is no binding on either party. So, was your paperwork an application of was it the actual loan documents?

For your sake, I would hope not since that would kill any argument you might have to continue the deal. If they had no legal right to sell it, they surely couldn't sell it to you.

It was the loan paperwork, not just an application. It is an actual contract, it states all their rights and ours. Definitley not just an application.

They seemed to forget about the whole thing until we asked for the tag, this is a used car, by the way, a 2008. Not a new car, though it is a larger dealership, and one, I thought, was reputable. I guess in these times, especially with so many dealerships going out of business, they are running scared. The new section of this dealership is a toyota dealership, and they are already probably suffering from the recent recalls. But still, how can a business just be so relaxed about a car being out and about, why did they never call, or send a letter or something? It seems insane to me.

 

[justalayman]

So, you are saying they signed a loan agreement without you filling out a loan application? Very very unusual.

as to a new car dealer acting as a lender: as I said, I have never seen a new car dealer act as a lender. It's just not their business. Not saying it is impossible, just highly unusual.

So, take your loan contract to a lawyer and have them read it and give you an opinion as to the validity. If it is binding, then stand your ground.

 

[jennbry]

So, you are saying they signed a loan agreement without you filling out a loan application? Very very unusual.

as to a new car dealer acting as a lender: as I said, I have never seen a new car dealer act as a lender. It's just not their business. Not saying it is impossible, just highly unusual.

So, take your loan contract to a lawyer and have them read it and give you an opinion as to the validity. If it is binding, then stand your ground.

I never said we didn't fill out a loan application....why would you think that. And it was a used car....they have both used and new divisions. You know one business doing business as another.

 

[justalayman]

=jennbry;2524083]

You know one business doing business as another.

No, I don't have any idea what you mean. A new car dealer that also sells used cars (almost all of them do as far as I know) there is one business doing business as XYZ Toyota or whatever it is called.



anyway, if you believe you have a valid contract, either tell them to provide the title and whatever. If they refuse, you will have to sue them most likely.

What I suggested still stands: I would suggest getting an attorney's opinion on what you state is a binding contract, just to be sure. If it isn't and you stand your ground, it could be a real pain for you.



the other thing you might consider doing is seeking your own financing outside of the dealership.

If you want to fight them about this, it is very likely going to be a pain in the rump and even if you win, will most likely cost you for an attorney.

 

[tammy8]

Sounds exactly like you know your credit is not loan worthy.

 

[jennbry]

Sounds exactly like you know your credit is not loan worthy.

What does anything have to do with the other, I will tell you right now, another thing I've recently learned, it's not so much the credit, the loan they wrote up is waayyyyy more than the car is worth, no lender would touch it.

I do have an attorney now, I have filed a complaint on them through the state of florida's highway and motor vehichle safety department, they are getting cited.

They do write loans, that's why they can in turn sell them for a profit, if they did not own the at one time, they could not sell them....anyone in the business knows this is a common practice for dealerships and an important way they make money.

I don't get that whole attitude, my biggest problem is they will not put any of their requests in writing, they refuse to send a letter of rescission and are trying to trick us into voluntarily repossessing the car. A payment hasn't even come due yet, and they are calling repo guys. And as far as credit worthiness, before going to the dealership, I had a loan, they did not use that one, each time we asked about it, they said they were doing this for us and that for us. We stupidly trusted them. Since I'm now in the market for another car, I've had many people calling us offering loans, we just don't know what to do now since our lawyer said this could take some time.

If I am so wrong, why did the dealership not contact us regarding a problem in 35 days, they waited for us to call them regarding the tag?

Why have they to this day, after numerous requests, not sent anything in writing?

Why when we speak to them, they offer no answers to our questions, only threats?

I hope anyone else reading this that may have had a similar problem knows that after talking to the DMV, the state attorney general's office, the legislative information office, and numerous lawyers in the field....I have found out that what the dealership has done and is doing is illegal, it is a scam, they have no legal right and use "ramrodding" as one lawyer told me, to try and scare and trick people.

So for all the comments to my question, sorry, but according to the law of my state, you guys are wrong. Consumer's have rights, even though the dealership told me they didn't.

 

[jennbry]

You might as well return the car. If the financing was turned down it's not yours. Some times dealers will let you leave in the car even if they aren't 100% sure it will go through so that you don't leave and continue to look at other dealers. It also completes one part of the sale, the delivery. They have to give you all your money back. Just look at it like this, you got to drive a new car for a month for free. While you're there, you might want to talk to the finance guy to find out what the problem was. You must have been close to getting approved or they would have said no when you were there to buy it.

I think the problem was they tried to get us a loan for 6k over what the value of the car was. Nobody touches that crap, it was nothing more than a ploy for them to make sales numbers and perhaps steal my down payment. This of course is very clear in hindsight.


We had a loan in place when we went in there, we had a car in mind. They steered us away from that car and now I know why, it had an advertised price, they would have had to stick to that. I've learned a lot through this process, the car we bought had no price on it, just the salesman telling us it was the same price.

 

[jennbry]

No, I don't have any idea what you mean. A new car dealer that also sells used cars (almost all of them do as far as I know) there is one business doing business as XYZ Toyota or whatever it is called.

Like xyz inc dba as xyz autos. dba standing for doing business as. This dealership has a few of those under it's incorporation.

I am totally befuddled that you have not heard of dealerships doing loans. They do them all the time, it's called in house financing. Very, very common where I live.