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M

MDELECCE

Guest
What is the name of your state? California. There's a telemarketing co. in the state of Washingington that solicits customers to purchase advertising for a national directory. They called our business and spoke with an employee to get authorization to publish our co. in their directory. The employee gave authorization not knowing what he was talking about (he's illiterate). Now this co. says we owe them $450 for a directory we've never received. My husband or I are the sole proprietors of our business and the ONLY persons who can authorize any business transactions - which we explanined to these people, but they don't care. Also, these people continually call our business wanting to know why we haven't paid. My question is, are we liable for this? Must we pay for something we didn't authorize or haven't received?
 
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I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
MDELECCE said:
What is the name of your state? California. There's a telemarketing co. in the state of Washingington that solicits customers to purchase advertising for a national directory. They called our business and spoke with an employee to get authorization to publish our co. in their directory. The employee gave authorization not knowing what he was talking about (he's illiterate). Now this co. says we owe them $450 for a directory we've never received. My husband or I are the sole proprietors of our business and the ONLY persons who can authorize any business transactions - which we explanined to these people, but they don't care. Also, these people continually call our business wanting to know why we haven't paid. My question is, are we liable for this? Must we pay for something we didn't authorize or haven't received?


My response:

Third party callers to your company do not know who is "authorized" or not. But, the presumption of authority can be presumed when you allow an employee to pick up the telephone. So, regardless whether your employee is "illiterate", you allowed him, nonetheless, to pick up the telephone and converse with third persons. A third party does not have to presume that your employee is "illiterate". The third party caller can, however, presume that whoever picks up the telephone and agrees to a contract has, at least, "ostensible authority" to act on behalf of your business.

An employee of a corporation who is running its business operations may be found to have ostensible authority to do "any act appropriate in the ordinary course of business." [Englert v. Ivac Corp., supra, 92 Cal.App.3d at 190, 154 Cal.Rptr. at 810

Recovery on a theory of ostensible authority rests upon the doctrine of estoppel. Like estoppel, therefore, the essential elements are:

• a representation (or omission) by the principal (some act or neglect by the principal sought to be charged leading plaintiff (the caller) reasonably to believe the third person was the principal's agent/employee);

• The caller's justifiable reliance thereon (the caller dealt with the supposed agent/employee in the reasonable belief he or she was authorized to act on the principal's behalf and was not negligent in relying upon the supposed agent's/employee's apparent authority);

• The caller's change of position or injury resulting from such reliance. [Yanchor v. Kagan, supra, 22 Cal.App.3d at 549, 99 Cal.Rptr. at 370-371; Saks v. Charity Mission Baptist Church, supra, 90 Cal.App.4th at 1138, 110 Cal.Rptr.2d at 62; see also Associated Creditors' Agency v. Davis (1975) 13 Cal.3d 374, 399, 118 Cal.Rptr. 772, 788; and BAJI 13.20.5]


You're on the hook for this one and, in the future, if you don't want your "illiterate" employees agreeing to bind you to contracts, then don't have your "illiterate" employees answer the telephone. It's not for the world to figure out that you employ "illiterates" and others who may not have "ostensible" or "actual" authority.

IAAL
 

Souix

Senior Member
Re: Re: Contracts

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE said:
My response:

Third party callers to your company do not know who is "authorized" or not. But, the presumption of authority can be presumed when you allow an employee to pick up the telephone. So, regardless whether your employee is "illiterate", you allowed him, nonetheless, to pick up the telephone and converse with third persons. A third party does not have to presume that your employee is "illiterate". The third party caller can, however, presume that whoever picks up the telephone and agrees to a contract has, at least, "ostensible authority" to act on behalf of your business.

An employee of a corporation who is running its business operations may be found to have ostensible authority to do "any act appropriate in the ordinary course of business." [Englert v. Ivac Corp., supra, 92 Cal.App.3d at 190, 154 Cal.Rptr. at 810

Recovery on a theory of ostensible authority rests upon the doctrine of estoppel. Like estoppel, therefore, the essential elements are:

• a representation (or omission) by the principal (some act or neglect by the principal sought to be charged leading plaintiff (the caller) reasonably to believe the third person was the principal's agent/employee);

• The caller's justifiable reliance thereon (the caller dealt with the supposed agent/employee in the reasonable belief he or she was authorized to act on the principal's behalf and was not negligent in relying upon the supposed agent's/employee's apparent authority);

• The caller's change of position or injury resulting from such reliance. [Yanchor v. Kagan, supra, 22 Cal.App.3d at 549, 99 Cal.Rptr. at 370-371; Saks v. Charity Mission Baptist Church, supra, 90 Cal.App.4th at 1138, 110 Cal.Rptr.2d at 62; see also Associated Creditors' Agency v. Davis (1975) 13 Cal.3d 374, 399, 118 Cal.Rptr. 772, 788; and BAJI 13.20.5]


You're on the hook for this one and, in the future, if you don't want your "illiterate" employees agreeing to bind you to contracts, then don't have your "illiterate" employees answer the telephone. It's not for the world to figure out that you employ "illiterates" and others who may not have "ostensible" or "actual" authority.

IAAL


IAAL: But they haven't even received it, are they still liable to pay for something they haven't received?
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
Re: Re: Re: Contracts

Susie Baby said:
IAAL: But they haven't even received it, are they still liable to pay for something they haven't received?

My response:

The writer hasn't received the "advertising for a national directory" because the writer hasn't paid yet. Why would the caller's company print and distribute an advertisement for our writer's company when the writer has, thus far, failed to pay?

When you go into a store to buy a "widget", do you get to walk out and use the "widget" before you pay the cashier?

Same principle applies. Why should our writer obtain the benefit of the advertising BEFORE payment has been received?

IAAL
 

JETX

Senior Member
One thing you might consider doing is to simply refuse to pay the bill. Granted, this has some risk of threats of debt collection, etc., but considering the nature of the contact and the low claim ($450), it is very unlikely that they will take any further action.

Just curious... what is the name of the firm soliciting the ads??
 

Souix

Senior Member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Contracts

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE said:
My response:

The writer hasn't received the "advertising for a national directory" because the writer hasn't paid yet. Why would the caller's company print and distribute an advertisement for our writer's company when the writer has, thus far, failed to pay?

When you go into a store to buy a "widget", do you get to walk out and use the "widget" before you pay the cashier?

Same principle applies. Why should our writer obtain the benefit of the advertising BEFORE payment has been received?

IAAL



You have the widget in your hands when you pay for it. So no it is not the same principle.

The least the company could do is fax the proof to these people. Thats what I request when I do my advertising.
 

djohnson

Senior Member
I'm also curious what kind of proof they have that he agreed. A little off subject but once in our business we were sent a case of toner for our copier. Problem was it not only didn't fit our copier but we didn't order it. They said our operator ordered it and gave us her name and date and time of call as the 'proof'. Luckily all our lines are recorded so we pulled it and the only thing remotely close was a call that said "what did you say your name was again?" after she said hello and company name. After she gave her name the caller hung up. Company took that as bad salesman and reversed the order and sent a call ticket to return the shipment. It may not be the case with you, but there are bad salesmen out there that don't always work properly.
 
M

MDELECCE

Guest
One thing I didn't mention was that these people didn't even mention the fact that their call was for an ad in their directory. They only told our employee that they were updating their directory and asked him to verify our name, address and type of business we're in. This is my main gripe for not wanting to pay these people. I don't like these kinds of sales tactics. Also, they never sent or faxed us any proof of an ad.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Since they are claiming that 'your person' authorized the order, you can just as easily claim that 'your person' said that the order would be contingent on their sending a proof of the ad and its acceptance. Since they failed to do as required, the bill is not owed.
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
JETX said:
Since they are claiming that 'your person' authorized the order, you can just as easily claim that 'your person' said that the order would be contingent on their sending a proof of the ad and its acceptance. Since they failed to do as required, the bill is not owed.

My response:

Oh, yeah. Right. Our writer said his employee is an "illiterate". Can you, or our writer, imagine the "illiterate" actually saying that ten dollar phrase?

I can just read the "illiterate's" declaration, or hear his testimony, right now . . . "An, you honor, I dun tol him that the oder was `contingent on their sending a proof of the ad and it's acceptance.' I swear to God, and under the threat of perjury, I really said that!"

And, as comedienne "Judy Tenuta" always says, "It could happen!"

Our writer is sunk.

IAAL
 

JETX

Senior Member
Writer might be sunk.... but I am just trying to toss her a rope..... twine..... string..... thread..... :D

In any case, I sure as hell wouldn't pay their invoice without a substantial 'fight' on their hands!!
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
JETX said:
Writer might be sunk.... but I am just trying to toss her a rope..... twine..... string..... thread..... :D

In any case, I sure as hell wouldn't pay their invoice without a substantial 'fight' on their hands!!

My response:

Steve, I love you. You use the funniest phrases!

And, to show you my delight, here's something you never see me use - - :D

IAAL
 

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