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  1. #16
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by djyox View Post
    That the car has damage beyond what was told to me that the dealer knew during the sale.
    You were advised that the vehicle had been in a prior collision - you inspected and accepted the repair.
  2. #17
    djyox is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zigner View Post
    You were advised that the vehicle had been in a prior collision - you inspected and accepted the repair.
    No, I inspected a door. And regardless of a repair, frame damage, while it can be repaired, lowers the value of a car. That is why its so important to know if it ever had this type of damage. They knew that, that's why they didn't tell me.

    I've spoken to 5 other dealerships, all are in agreement with me. And 2 of those have sat down and explained what should happen and why. Then tell me how the dealer I got the car from is wrong.

    I don't know if I'm not explaining it right, or what. Do you understand how the values of cars work?

    I understand you're trying to put the blame of this on me, but this is one of those things that could be missed easily with an inspection depending on the damage. But regardless, if you bought a house for top dollar, that was on the same block as all meth houses, and the realtor said " great neighborhood" who's in the wrong? Or how about if you went in to have a mole removed, and you woke up to find out you had heart by-pass surgery, and oh yeah, you're flipping for the bill....
    Last edited by djyox; 12-02-2010 at 11:33 AM.
  3. #18
    djyox is offline Junior Member
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    Tell you what, I'm going to be meeting with JAG tomorrow, I'll let you know what they say. If I'm screwed cuz of my own fault, I'll tell you. If I'm in the right, I'll tell you.

    Either way, I can get you a result. Maybe satisfy you by them agreeing with you, or maybe I can tell you the laws the dealer has broken. Which is all I wanted from the start, which I have found more than has been pointed out here. Either way.
    Last edited by djyox; 12-02-2010 at 12:48 AM.
  4. #19
    sbird57 is offline Junior Member
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    Understand your situation

    I was reading this thread because I am in a similar situation. You are right. According to insurance companies and state DMV's that work with this, a bent unibody it a damaged frame. I am also from Colorado. I guess I can impart the information I found out this morning. According to Colorado, if a frame (or Unibody) is bent it is called Frame Damage. This frame can either be fixed or not repairable. If it is frame damage the car must be listed as a salvage title. At that point, the owner can then, if possible, repair it enough to pass Colorado inspection (or insurance company inspection). The car then becomes a built from salvage. If a car is salvage it is under a salvage title. If it has been rebuilt it must be permanently stamped in the inside of the door, and must state so on the left hand corner of the title. If a dealer sales you the car, according to the DMV, they MUST tell you and give you the appropriate papers. Based on what you have said, if this car was listed as frame damaged, and if all frame damage puts a car into salvage (which I would assume you could verify with your insurance company and/or DMV) and what my insurance company and the DMV have told me is true, and the auction did sale the car as "frame damaged", and you have proof the dealer would have had that information, then it appears the dealer has indeed done something wrong. It also would seem, something slipped through the cracks. Do you have a regular title, and why isn't it salvage title. The DMV told me to check on my title and see if it said rebuild in the upper left corner. Look on yours. I now have a car fax, and mine suspiciously shows it titled in Maryland 6 days after the wreck report of the police in Colorado (at that time titled in Colorado). Then 2 weeks later titled back in Colorado. All I know so far about my situation, is that the frame (unibody) is buckled, is not repairable, and somehow the title was never changed to salvage or even rebuilt. And that the dealership said they got a car fax (which they gave to me) inspected the car and fixed everything. I have been told by another auto repair shop, that they know the facility, and that there wasn't anyway for them to not know, because of how they inspect the cars. I'm at this point collecting all the info I can from insurance company, police accident report, and DMV to see what to do next. I don't know about the law, but whether or not you did all the due diligence!, if the dealer knew about frame damage, especially if that frame damage would legally make it a salvage or rebuilt, and didn't tell you, then his is morally wrong, and based on the info I have been collecting, possibly not following what he is required to do as a dealer. What you did or did not do, does not effect whether or not he followed what he is suppose to do.
  5. #20
    djyox is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbird57 View Post
    I was reading this thread because I am in a similar situation. You are right. According to insurance companies and state DMV's that work with this, a bent unibody it a damaged frame. I am also from Colorado. I guess I can impart the information I found out this morning. According to Colorado, if a frame (or Unibody) is bent it is called Frame Damage. This frame can either be fixed or not repairable. If it is frame damage the car must be listed as a salvage title. At that point, the owner can then, if possible, repair it enough to pass Colorado inspection (or insurance company inspection). The car then becomes a built from salvage. If a car is salvage it is under a salvage title. If it has been rebuilt it must be permanently stamped in the inside of the door, and must state so on the left hand corner of the title. If a dealer sales you the car, according to the DMV, they MUST tell you and give you the appropriate papers. Based on what you have said, if this car was listed as frame damaged, and if all frame damage puts a car into salvage (which I would assume you could verify with your insurance company and/or DMV) and what my insurance company and the DMV have told me is true, and the auction did sale the car as "frame damaged", and you have proof the dealer would have had that information, then it appears the dealer has indeed done something wrong. It also would seem, something slipped through the cracks. Do you have a regular title, and why isn't it salvage title. The DMV told me to check on my title and see if it said rebuild in the upper left corner. Look on yours. I now have a car fax, and mine suspiciously shows it titled in Maryland 6 days after the wreck report of the police in Colorado (at that time titled in Colorado). Then 2 weeks later titled back in Colorado. All I know so far about my situation, is that the frame (unibody) is buckled, is not repairable, and somehow the title was never changed to salvage or even rebuilt. And that the dealership said they got a car fax (which they gave to me) inspected the car and fixed everything. I have been told by another auto repair shop, that they know the facility, and that there wasn't anyway for them to not know, because of how they inspect the cars. I'm at this point collecting all the info I can from insurance company, police accident report, and DMV to see what to do next. I don't know about the law, but whether or not you did all the due diligence!, if the dealer knew about frame damage, especially if that frame damage would legally make it a salvage or rebuilt, and didn't tell you, then his is morally wrong, and based on the info I have been collecting, possibly not following what he is required to do as a dealer. What you did or did not do, does not effect whether or not he followed what he is suppose to do.
    Thanks for the reply. I've talked with JAG and they agree as well. As far as the title goes, I have no idea, I've never seen it. Colorado is kinda weird where the bank keeps the title. In MN, where I'm from, you keep the title. I will have verification from the auction on the next few days. I can also post up the letter JAG is drafting up threatening to sue and report to the dealer board.

    Do you have any of the laws that this falls under by chance?
  6. #21
    sbird57 is offline Junior Member
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    Yes I have gained more colorado law/regs info. Covers BOTH cars that are salvage AND known material damage. Colorado doesn't title cars over 6 years old at time of accident as salvage, but those are still covered under Material Damage. Colorado Motor Vehicle Industry Laws & Regulations 12-6-118 (3) (i) and some others a-g or so cover it, but very directly (i). A dealer is required to include in the written and signed contract that a vehicle is salvage OR even if he knows of material damage from 1 incident. Here is a link if it works it will be easier, but if it doesn't work instructions follow. [url=http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Rev-Enforcement/RE/1214213332976]Department of Revenue - Enforcement Group:Laws and Regulations[/url] Just put in Colorado Motor Vehicle Industry Laws and Regulations in a search and click on the one that says Department of Revenue - Enforcement Group:Laws and Regulations then under Laws and Regulations click on Motor Vehicle Industry Laws and Regulations and it will bring up an adobe document. Look at page 35 of the document at 12-6-118 (3).

    ALSO - if you want to know what your title is all you have to do is call your county with your VIN and they will look up your title number and tell you if it is clean or salvage or rebuilt from salvage. Sometimes titles are fraudulently washed, sometimes insurange companies fail to notify the state to change it to salvage.

    Info I have been able to gather is NICB report that mine is salvage (its free VINcheck), police report on the accident (public info), verbal statements from insurance company and auction company, and the law that states I have rights to recover loss and that the dealers license can be revoked (further down in the same regs above) and that the dealer investigations can invoke other penalties.

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