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Dealer sold me a car that was good, turns out frame damage

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djyox

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Colorado

So here is the skinny, I bought a car back in May, from a little rinky dink dealer. (mistake #1, I know) While looking at the car, crawling all around it, and checking it out (I consider myself to be a somewhat car knowledgeable, aka, I can see if something is broken, something is new, old, etc..) I saw a few dings and dents, normal wear and tear on a 4 year old car. As well as the hood not lining up exactly correct. All parts under the hood seemed to be OEM, etc, etc... So, I told the dealer, lets check out the carfax. The dealer flashed me the carfax, showed that it had been repaired only once, for the passenger side rear door assembly. We walked back out and looked again. Looks fixed, no problem.

After some wheeling and dealing, I signed all the paper work, (IE, the car fax next to where the door assembly had been repaired, the "AS-IS NO WARRANTY" sheet, etc etc.) Shook hands, and out the door, happy with the car, and the dealer, of course, seemed happy as well, win win.


****EDIT: Sorry I forgot to say, that the dealer carfax only showed up to before the car had gone to auction, it did not show that the car had gone to auction yet even. I believe (with out having the paper infront of me, its last date was something in '09)*****
Fast forward 6 Months

This weekend, I was driving by a car, that caught my eye, I pulled in, talked to the dealer, told them about my car, they told me about theirs. I basically said, I would pay what they wanted for their car, if they paid off mine. They said that it most likely could be done, a few min later walked back, and showed me an "Autocheck" (kinda like car fax, but I guess dealer only) which said the car had been announced auction as "frame damage". They told me they would only offer me a few thousand on my car which blue books out at almost $20k. The person who was the one who got it at auction, was of course, the dealer I bought from.

****EDIT: The autocheck did say that the door assembly was repaired, and also went up to where I registered the vehicle. But right before that was where it stated "AUCTION REPORTED FRAME DAMAGE"*****

A little pissed, I ran back to the dealer I bought it from, they started making crap up right away, saying the owner was out of town, and wouldn't be back til monday, etc, etc... This was all on Friday of this weekend. So I walked back in on Saturday, expecting to have a sales guy call the owner because I was pissed, only to find out that he was in fact in town, and they "talked" Friday night about what to do. The owner basically said, he wont do anything, because I signed the as-is, and we reviewed the carfax.


So my question is, how can I become whole again? I either want them to pay me my downpayment, all payments made, and the remainder of the loan off, OR pay me the difference of the value of the car vs the loan amount. I feel they sold the car under complete misrepresentation, and theft by deception. They had this car that they KNEW had frame damage and worth less than 1/4th of blue book, advertised it at blue book value, and safe.... No mention of this type of damage anywhere, on any paper, or verbal (I had a witness with for my car buying as well). I was just the unlucky guy who took the bait.

So a law suit is the only way I'm going to get anything done, correct? What else can I do to help this guy from never doing this again? I can't find them under the BBB. I fear, that if they do get the car back, they will re-sell it for blue-book, with out telling the next person about it. Or who knows how many on the lot are like this....


**cliff notes: Bought a car from a dealer, they showed a car fax that looked ok, found out that there was infact frame damage, that the owner of the dealer knew about, but sold it as if it had been in tip top shape**
 
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Dave1952

Senior Member
Jf the carfax said a door assembly was the only repair and the autocheck said there was frame damage how did you decide which one to believe?
Colorado has an Auto Industry Division. You can file a complaint (form DR2121) when you decide which dealer was lying.

Good luck
 

djyox

Junior Member
Jf the carfax said a door assembly was the only repair and the autocheck said there was frame damage how did you decide which one to believe?
Colorado has an Auto Industry Division. You can file a complaint (form DR2121) when you decide which dealer was lying.

Good luck

I'm sorry, you are correct. But I forgot to put in a MAJOR part of the puzzle. The Carfax from the dealer I bought the car from only showed before the car had gone to the auction. The autocheck went past that and even showed where I had titled it and what not as well. So my guess is the carfax would show this as well, if pulled up today.
 

djyox

Junior Member
Well, I found the website that deals with the Department of revenue for dealers. Here is their PDF for you to download and view: http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?c=Document_C&cid=1216720813324&pagename=Rev-Enforcement/Document_C/REAddLink


I'll be honest, I'm not much for the legal mumbo-jumbo. I can figure some stuff out, but my guess is most on this site have a better knowledge of the lingo.


I don't know where to find under Colorado law "Theft by deception", or if this even applies. I have MAJOR doubts that the owner was the only one who knew this car had frame damage and the salesman and finance lady were just Innocent bystanders. I don't understand why its so hard to just be honest now days.... I don't want to give them an inch, or they will take a mile. The next time, it could be found out by someone dying in an auto crash due to frame damage and the crumple zone of the car not performing how it should. I almost feel now that its my duty to make sure this never happens again by them.
 
the car was not a salvage right? so just sell the car and move on if you dont want it anymore. If you want a carfax on a car, then you do it to insure its accurate and up to date. As-is is As-is really.
 

aldaron

Member
You won't get very far comparing what one dealer would give on tradein value vs retail value, your mixing apples and oranges. The car was sold as is and you bought it as is. Does this car even have a frame, 90% of cars nowadays don't even have frames. Millions of wrecked cars are SAFELY repaired every year and you have not shown that yours wasn't.
 

djyox

Junior Member
Well, the as-is argument would work, had the dealer disclosed the info. By not disclosing and holding back info that would lower the value of the car doesn't count. Imho.

If the dealer sold you a car with flood damage, and said its clean, knowing that it had it when he sold it to you. That isn't as-is. The dealer is clearly trying to rip you off. That is what happened in my case. I will pull another carfax but my guess is it will say the same.

Also, I can't sell the car knowing it has frame damage or I can get sued by the next owner.
 
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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
1: How do you KNOW it has frame damage (the question was asked previously).

2: How can you PROVE the prior dealer knew about the frame damage?
 

djyox

Junior Member
1: How do you KNOW it has frame damage (the question was asked previously).

2: How can you PROVE the prior dealer knew about the frame damage?
1 - ok, as of now I'm just going by what autochecker said. The auction keeps records of cars they've sold, I will get the final info from them.

2 - again, the info from the auction will be the nail in the coffin. I will ne in touch with them this week. Seeing as how they reported it, they can either lift it, then no harm, no foul. If it is true, then I have what's needed to go after the dealer.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
1 - ok, as of now I'm just going by what autochecker said. The auction keeps records of cars they've sold, I will get the final info from them.

2 - again, the info from the auction will be the nail in the coffin. I will ne in touch with them this week. Seeing as how they reported it, they can either lift it, then no harm, no foul. If it is true, then I have what's needed to go after the dealer.
You've got your mind made up. Good luck...
 

Andy0192

Member
Better figure out if the car has a frame. 95% of cars are unibody construction, and would not have "frame damage".

Dealer disclosed there was prior damage. Instead of having a competent and qualified mechanic evaluate the car (which it seems has still not happened) you visually inspected the repair & deemed it acceptable.

Did you request an Autocheck report before you purchased the car? Why is that report suddenly more important now than it was before ?
 

djyox

Junior Member
Better figure out if the car has a frame. 95% of cars are unibody construction, and would not have "frame damage".

Dealer disclosed there was prior damage. Instead of having a competent and qualified mechanic evaluate the car (which it seems has still not happened) you visually inspected the repair & deemed it acceptable.

Did you request an Autocheck report before you purchased the car? Why is that report suddenly more important now than it was before ?

Ok, I'm guessing you're shooting from the hip, so I'll get this squared away for you.

1) frame and unibody are lumped together, due to that they are both structural. Are they the same? No. Does my car have a frame? Nope. But I'm just quoting what the report says.

2) disclosure of minor non-structural damage is not even in the same ball park as frame/unibody damage. The major difference between the two, minor damage that was repaired doesn't change the value of the car that much. Structural damage drops the value of a car way down. Guessing by your questioning of if I can tell a unibody vs framed car apart, I can see how a mechanic would be needed. However, far from that is where I would consider myself, and having worked on cars, boats, bikes, and small engines for most of my life, I hope I can figure out a mechanical problem myself.

3) autochecker vs carfax both are reputable. Either would list the damage. The carfax, however, by date, did not go up to the date of the auction. Therefore, the autocheck that I got did. I'm not voting for carfax vs autochecker.



Is there anymore questions? All I wanted, was some laws that could help me. The more they broke, the easier this will be.



Thank you for your help.
 

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