EBay - Right to cancel sale - seller does not have goods.

[jimbojr]

Florida, California, Tennsee

The following item is listed on EBay for sale

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4541407434&category=378&sspagename=rvi:1:1v_home#ebayphotohosting

It appears that the gentleman selling these 2 million books is pulling some kind of publicity stunt. Or, he's trying to sell books that don't exist purley on speculation. Here are the facts.

* There are only about 20,000 copies even in print
* The seller may have a relationship with the author (both internet marketeers)
* The seller is not an authorized distributor of J Wiley (publisher)
* He seems willing to negotiate smaller sales with people who've inquired about the book (see the seller Q&A section)

Now, there are two reasons why I would bid on this book...
1. The publicity
2. I would bundle copies of this book with my book being released in May having to do with success for those with a high school education

But, I would do so knowing that the transaction could not be completed under EBay policy or reasonable terms for shipping and delivery.

In essence, if my bid were the winning bid, I would be contact by the seller. I would state that I would like to purchase the book as a premium (gift) for buyers of my book. But, my May pub date requires I take delivery in 30 days. At that point, he's forced to admit that he does not have books in stock, but would be happy to order them with 3-5 month delivery. At that point, I would either ask to cancel the sale or renegotiate the price and terms based on availablility and delivery, If i decided to buy from him at all.

My job right now is to make sure I don't paint myself into a corner by creating some contract that cannot be performed on. I know the seller cannot perform -- he dosen't have the books and won't have the books for months. And, I also know that I don't have the funds immediately available (as if I could put 7.5 million on my PayPal account!).

So, it seems like a case of no foul, no harm. Buyer and seller are left with the options of either cancelling the sale outright, or negotiating another deal that's mutually agreeable.

The upside is publicity for both.

No foul, no harm.

I've checked with EBay and they have stated that in such a situation where the seller clearly does not have, cannot get, and cannot manufacture the item for sale within a reasonable time allowed for normal shipping, the seller is under no obligation to complete the sale. I just need to make sure I'm not stuck in some unexpected legal position that would create grief for me down the road.

Your thoughts?

Jimbo

 

[seniorjudge]

Florida, California, Tennsee

The following item is listed on EBay for sale

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4541407434&category=378&sspagename=rvi:1:1v_home#ebayphotohosting

It appears that the gentleman selling these 2 million books is pulling some kind of publicity stunt. Or, he's trying to sell books that don't exist purley on speculation. Here are the facts.

* There are only about 20,000 copies even in print
* The seller may have a relationship with the author (both internet marketeers)
* The seller is not an authorized distributor of J Wiley (publisher)
* He seems willing to negotiate smaller sales with people who've inquired about the book (see the seller Q&A section)

Now, there are two reasons why I would bid on this book...
1. The publicity
2. I would bundle copies of this book with my book being released in May having to do with success for those with a high school education

But, I would do so knowing that the transaction could not be completed under EBay policy or reasonable terms for shipping and delivery.

In essence, if my bid were the winning bid, I would be contact by the seller. I would state that I would like to purchase the book as a premium (gift) for buyers of my book. But, my May pub date requires I take delivery in 30 days. At that point, he's forced to admit that he does not have books in stock, but would be happy to order them with 3-5 month delivery. At that point, I would either ask to cancel the sale or renegotiate the price and terms based on availablility and delivery, If i decided to buy from him at all.

My job right now is to make sure I don't paint myself into a corner by creating some contract that cannot be performed on. I know the seller cannot perform -- he dosen't have the books and won't have the books for months. And, I also know that I don't have the funds immediately available (as if I could put 7.5 million on my PayPal account!).

So, it seems like a case of no foul, no harm. Buyer and seller are left with the options of either cancelling the sale outright, or negotiating another deal that's mutually agreeable.

The upside is publicity for both.

No foul, no harm.

I've checked with EBay and they have stated that in such a situation where the seller clearly does not have, cannot get, and cannot manufacture the item for sale within a reasonable time allowed for normal shipping, the seller is under no obligation to complete the sale. I just need to make sure I'm not stuck in some unexpected legal position that would create grief for me down the road.

Your thoughts?

Jimbo

Sounds like you are asking to get scammed.

 

[panzertanker]

Florida, California, Tennsee

The following item is listed on EBay for sale

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4541407434&category=378&sspagename=rvi:1:1v_home#ebayphotohosting

It appears that the gentleman selling these 2 million books is pulling some kind of publicity stunt. Or, he's trying to sell books that don't exist purley on speculation. Here are the facts.

* There are only about 20,000 copies even in print
* The seller may have a relationship with the author (both internet marketeers)
* The seller is not an authorized distributor of J Wiley (publisher)
* He seems willing to negotiate smaller sales with people who've inquired about the book (see the seller Q&A section)

Now, there are two reasons why I would bid on this book...
1. The publicity
2. I would bundle copies of this book with my book being released in May having to do with success for those with a high school education

But, I would do so knowing that the transaction could not be completed under EBay policy or reasonable terms for shipping and delivery.

In essence, if my bid were the winning bid, I would be contact by the seller. I would state that I would like to purchase the book as a premium (gift) for buyers of my book. But, my May pub date requires I take delivery in 30 days. At that point, he's forced to admit that he does not have books in stock, but would be happy to order them with 3-5 month delivery. At that point, I would either ask to cancel the sale or renegotiate the price and terms based on availablility and delivery, If i decided to buy from him at all.

My job right now is to make sure I don't paint myself into a corner by creating some contract that cannot be performed on. I know the seller cannot perform -- he dosen't have the books and won't have the books for months. And, I also know that I don't have the funds immediately available (as if I could put 7.5 million on my PayPal account!).

So, it seems like a case of no foul, no harm. Buyer and seller are left with the options of either cancelling the sale outright, or negotiating another deal that's mutually agreeable.

The upside is publicity for both.

No foul, no harm.

I've checked with EBay and they have stated that in such a situation where the seller clearly does not have, cannot get, and cannot manufacture the item for sale within a reasonable time allowed for normal shipping, the seller is under no obligation to complete the sale. I just need to make sure I'm not stuck in some unexpected legal position that would create grief for me down the road.

Your thoughts?

Jimbo

A little clarification:
You DO NOT currently have the money for this auction?
You want to bid on it, hopefully win it?
You KNOW he does not have the quantity of books he is trying to sell?
You are then HOPING that if he does not have the books readily available you will be able to
1) negotiate a cheaper price?
2) have him deliver you the books to include with yours?

LOTS of variables here, my friend. The least of which is that you DO NOT currently have the funds to complete the "binding agreement" of your bid.
It does not matter that he may not have the books right now. All that you are currently responsible for is to have the funds for completion if you choose to bid.

Sounds like you are worried you will get scammed but, you are trying to scam him yourself.....

 

[jimbojr]

Personal opinions or legal opinions

Thanks for the responses.

To start, I believe the word scam is hardly appropirate to describe what's going on here. This is a publicity stunt -- orginally by one party, then by another.

Now, to address the last comment. Don't assume that I don't have 7.5 million dollars or have the backing in verifiable letters of credit. I've been working diligently to secure financing on the astronomically rare chance that somehow this guy has managed to produce 2 million copies of this book on his own, without the knowledge of the book trade and more importantly the publisher. I knew this would be a credibility issue for me. So, I felt obligated to prove I was a ready and willing buyer.

Now let's consider this rhetoric. If I offer to sell something I don't have and you agree to buy it sight unseen, I essentially sell the promise to deliver the item as described in the auction. For we all see only pictures and text on EBay listings. We must rely on those pictures and those descriptions to base our decisions. And, we rightfully assume that those goods being offered for sale do indeed exist and can be delivered as promised, unless otherwise stated.

I would compare it to me selling you a car or other big ticket item though an ad online. I describe it in great detail -- the specs, the condition, the finish, etc. I list the price that seems reasonable. You decide to buy the car based on my description. Now, I contact you to complete the deal and send payment. But, there's a catch -- I don't own the car I described.

You object. "Why you can't sell me a car you don't own!" you exclaim. I say, "Well, we have an agreement... a contract. I will deliver the car once I go out and find it at a better price and mark it up at at profit."

You object again, "What! That's crazy! You mean to tell me you expect me to wait for you to go find a car and then sell it to me? I'm cancelling the sale."

"No can do," I say. "We have a contact. It obligates you to buy the car I sold you. I'm sorry I forgot to mention that I didn't own it yet. But, I'll solve that problem once I find one that fits the description I posted. Oh, by the way, it may take me a month or so to find the right deal."

Now you're fuming!

"I'm not going to wait here for you to go find a car and sell it to me at a profit!" you exclaim. "I'll take my money elsewhere and find a dealer who has the car. As for you sir, you're a fraud and a con."

This is an absurd story, but representative of what is taking place.

I appreciate some responses that considered words such as
* misrepresentation
* non-performance
* violation of EBay policy (yes, I have EBay on the record saying this is not allowable)

Look, I know this is all crazy. But like I said before, it appears to be a publicity stunt.

You can't tell me that in such a situation there is some sort of binding contract that will somhow obligate me to purchase these book regardless of how long it would take this person to obtain them -- if that is even possible.

I wanted to offer this situation to the forum as something a bit out of the norm. It's unique. It's entertaining. And the responses you provide could determine the outcome of a historical event in cyberspace.

Jimbo

 

[seniorjudge]

I wanted to offer this situation to the forum as something a bit out of the norm. It's unique. It's entertaining. And the responses you provide could determine the outcome of a historical event in cyberspace.

Jimbo

Sounds like a pretty run of the mill scam to me.

 

[panzertanker]

Thanks for the responses.

To start, I believe the word scam is hardly appropirate to describe what's going on here. This is a publicity stunt -- orginally by one party, then by another.

Now, to address the last comment. Don't assume that I don't have 7.5 million dollars or have the backing in verifiable letters of credit. I've been working diligently to secure financing on the astronomically rare chance that somehow this guy has managed to produce 2 million copies of this book on his own, without the knowledge of the book trade and more importantly the publisher. I knew this would be a credibility issue for me. So, I felt obligated to prove I was a ready and willing buyer.

I never assumed, jimbo. YOU stated you did not have the money, not me!

And, I also know that I don't have the funds immediately available (as if I could put 7.5 million on my PayPal account!).

After YOU made that statement, all the rest is moot. Semantics. Rhetoric. You choose. The outcome is the same. You are trying to bid on something utilizing an ASSumption that the seller will not be able to complete the deal. However, at the onset YOU are unable to complete the deal. You know this.

That means you are trying to run a scam.

Plain and simple truth.
Through your own words....

 

[panzertanker]

And also...
In this long diatribe to try and defend your point, you continue to make the assumption that the seller cannot deliver. You are unable to do that, for all you know the books are sitting in a warehouse waiting for delivery...
Where in the ad did he say "I don't have them right now, but will sell them anyway"?
Where did he say that he was hoping for a publicity stunt?
He did not. He stated that he had these books for sale. Period.
Bid or don't, but if you do you are obligated to be prepared to pay at auction end.

Then you say:

Here are the facts.

* There are only about 20,000 copies even in print
* The seller may have a relationship with the author (both internet marketeers)
* The seller is not an authorized distributor of J Wiley (publisher)
* He seems willing to negotiate smaller sales with people who've inquired about the book (see the seller Q&A section)

Dude, can you READ??? FACTS? Your post is laughable at best, but hysterical when you show your ignorance!

It is people like you; ones looking for the loophole so they can exploit it, who make the ebay community wary. I read the ad, and no where does he offer a time frame for delivery, or a guarantee. He actually states to email or call him for questions.

 

[djohnson]

I would just like to make the point that the way ebay works is you pay first, then you get the item(s). Until you paid him or was in default for not, you wouldn't know if he could fill the order or not. People come on here all the time and ask if it's worth it to sue a non paying buyer from ebay. We usually advise no, the cost isn't worth it. This amount would be worth it for him to pursue.