How is this MY expense?

[gfreely]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

I took my car in to have a sensor changed for a check engine light. In trying to remove the old sensor, the mechanic broke the manifold on which it sits. He called to tell me that he was going to charge me for removing the old sensor ($100), which I had no problem with. He then told me that he would let me know when he priced a new manifold and I would have to pay for it ($350-$400)...but he would put it in for free.

He has had my car for 2.5 weeks which has required me to obtain a rental.

I told him I take exception with him making me pay for something that wasn't broken when I took it in, but he said it was a bad design and would have broken no matter who changed the sensor. I called the manufacturer and spoke to their repair manager. His response: It is a stable design and if they knew what they were doing, it wouldn't have broke. He also said HE doesn't think it's fair for me to pay for it and that HE wouldn't charge me if I took it to the dealership.


My questions: What am I liable for as far as charges? Can I have them pay for the rental?

 

[BL]

What year and model auto are you speaking of ?

What kind of sensor ? Oxygen ?

Get the opinion ( repair- if the manifold could have broken ) not legal @ batauto.com forum.

Then with their opinion if the same as the dealership ,confront the mechanic with it and insist that they cover the cost and replace the manifold ,even if it's a good used one .

I doubt you'll get rental reimbursement .

 

[JETX]

What am I liable for as far as charges?

Depends on EXACTLY what you told him and what you signed. If you were not CLEAR that you would not pay for the manifold as it was damaged due to his work, then you SHOULD not be liable for the cost of material or labor for THAT part.

Can I have them pay for the rental?

Yes.... if they agree.

Here is what is LIKELY to happen....
You will have to pay for the repair (in order to get the vehicle back) and then sue the OWNER of the shop for your 'damages' (costs you incurred due to their negligence).

Get a WRITTEN statement from the dealer confirming what you say they said. Also, be VERY careful and read the documents that the shop tries to give you... looking for anything that could limit their liability.

 

[gfreely]

Addendum

Thanks for the responses!

It's an 01 Toyota and I took it in for an O2 sensor ECM code...which I found out AFTER I took it in that could have been a software issue rather than the sensor itself (according to Toyota). But in the mechanics defense, I did take it to him to change a sensor, not troubleshoot the code.

As far as paperwork, they were out of "workorders" when I took it in so I didn't fill anything out initially. I also have never signed anything in the nearly 3 weeks my car has been there. I have told them verbally that I think it's wrong to ask me to pay for their error...whether it was "inevitable" as they claim or not.

I have been trying to "out-wait" them to make my point. I would hate to take the lawsuit route, but I think your suggestion is the way I may have to go: Pay for it (if I must), and then take them to small claims court.

I know the law in Texas is lacking in this area, but I just wanted to find out if there was anything definite spelled out for me to take to the shop when I confront them next.

Thanks!

 

[JETX]

As far as paperwork, they were out of "workorders" when I took it in so I didn't fill anything out initially. I also have never signed anything in the nearly 3 weeks my car has been there. I have told them verbally that I think it's wrong to ask me to pay for their error...whether it was "inevitable" as they claim or not.

I know the law in Texas is lacking in this area, but I just wanted to find out if there was anything definite spelled out for me to take to the shop when I confront them next.

Read the information at:
Texas Attorney General

 

[xylene]

Boil it down - please answer

Which do you believe is going on

1) The sensor or sensor design was stuck or faulty and removal of it had the inevitable consequence of damaging the manifold.

2) The mechanic is negligent.

3) The mechanic is fraudulently damaging part to pad the bill


Personally, knowing the toyota design, it is like 1.5. (between 1 and 2) The design makes a stuck part that cannot be removed without the possibility of damage. Even without a flawed design, damage can occur during requested repairs without it being negligent (ie you pay)

I think this knowledge is in the mechanics head too, which is why he offered to forgo the expected payment for labor installation.

 

[gfreely]

RE: Boil it down

I believe there is a 4th option which was omitted from your list which had a lot to do with it:

The mechanic didn't know what he was doing

Having worked on aircraft for about half of my adult life, I am intimately familiar with this type of arrangement - a part being stuck, be it a screw. lockdown bolt, or sensor of some type (in this case, from pullng G's and normal operation pressure)

I tend to believe the Toyota guy. If they had known what they were doing, it wouldn't have tore a hole in the manifold. He even went so far as to tell me the proper methodology for removing it. He admitted that they were difficult to remove, but also said that it is NOT a "bad design" as the mechanic had claimed. The problem is inherent in the physics of the part.

As a Quality professional in my current career incarnation, I cannot believe that even a non-dealer mechanic wouldn't check TBs. You would THINK they would want to be up on common problems. I only say this because it was brought to my attention by the Toyota guy *after* I had already taken it in for a sensor change....and the mechanic had mangled my manifold.

While asking around during this ordeal, I have heard a LOT of people say that it was nice of them to offer free labour once I pay for a new part. Once again, I strongly feel that no matter the reason (short of natural disaster or criminal activity), if they break something in trying to fix another part, they should eat the cost. To differentiate, I am not saying that if I take it in for a repair and something else goes wrong that they should be liable for that. But if they are changing a water pump and drop the alternator when they remove it (to get to the pump) and it breaks, would they not be liable for that also?

I just think that if my manifold was not torn up when I took it in, they should fix it at their expense. That's the way it works everywhere else. If I take my computer in for a service and they wipe the hard drive accidentally...and I hadn't signed an acknowledgement stating that I know that is a risk...I would expect them to compensate for the accident.

I'm not trying to get something for nothing, nor am I trying to rip the mechanics ability. Accidents happen. But everyone has to pay for their mistakes in life. I don't ask anyone to pay for mine, and I don't expect a consumer to pay for a service providers mistake either.

 

[xylene]

I believe there is a 4th option which was omitted from your list which had a lot to do with it:

The mechanic didn't know what he was doing

That was option 2. Negligence.

The toyota guy castigating you for not taking the car to the dealer for service is not proof of negligence.

If you think the mechanic is incompetent, why would you consider having him do the repair, at his expense?

An inept mechanic - eating a 400 part damage dollar mistake...