Motorcycle without a title

[Notitleguy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
I bought a parts motorcycle without a title and want to get a title. What do I need to do?

 

[Mass_Shyster]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
I bought a parts motorcycle without a title and want to get a title. What do I need to do?

Buy a junk motorcycle that's you can use your parts to rebuild.

 

[Notitleguy]

Buy a junk motorcycle that's you can use your parts to rebuild.

Thanks but these motorcycles are demand now. It's a Yamaha xs 650.
I bought a complete motorcycle for parts ($500) and now have it running.

I bought the bike from a guy off of Craigslist who didn't have the title and bought it that way also. He bought it years back from a storage facility.
I contacted the local police dept to see if it was stolen and they verified it wasn't. I asked them for the owner info and they said it was protected under the privacy act. Florida DMV said the same thing. So I resorted to plan C which was ask a friend who has a friend who is a cop and I got the owners name and address.

I contacted the FDMV in person with the bill of sale from the seller and they said they need a bill of sale from the owner.

I got in touch with the owner and he lauged saying that was years ago and wished me luck and a bill of sale from him was in the mail, I agreed to a $75 payment for his trouble.
I received the bill of sale from the owner only to be told another story by the local FDMV that only titles can be used to transfer ownership of a vehicle, not bills of sale.
I contacted the owner again andd he said he would go down to the FDMV in his town(he's on the opposite side of the state) and get the new title sent to him. Then he would send it to me after he signed it. I told him I'd send him another $50.
I haven't heard another word from this guy and I'm angry... One from the FDMV for the incorrect requirements from them and the jerk I sent money to.

My alternatives are file for declaratory judgement using cancelled checks and signed paperwork to get ownership.($400 fee).
Then sue the guy who I sent the money for title/bill of sale for court costs.If that will even work....

Or go to a towing company and have them tow it away but have a ccontract with them saying in 30 days I'll buy it from them for $300.

I paid $500 the motorcycle, there has to be an easier way than spending more than half of what I spent to legally get ownership.

 

[justalayman]

I haven't heard another word from this guy and I'm angry... One from the FDMV for the incorrect requirements from them and the jerk I sent money to.

be angry at yourself for not researching problems with buying a vehicle that has no title. That is where all the problems started.

My alternatives are file for declaratory judgement using cancelled checks and signed paperwork to get ownership.($400 fee).

signed from whom? Unless the person that sold it to you had legal title, the courts cannot take that title and transfer it to you.

Then sue the guy who I sent the money for title/bill of sale for court costs.If that will even work....

You would lose on this one. You got what you bargained for: $75 for a bill of sale. In reality, you are in the wrong with this situation because you asked for paperwork you were not legally entitled to. Then, you attempted to use that false paperwork to obtain the title. I believe that would be fraud, so sure, go ahead and sue the guy because your scheme didn't work.

Or go to a towing company and have them tow it away but have a ccontract with them saying in 30 days I'll buy it from them for $300.

illegal but why not try. Legalities haven't stopped you yet.

I paid $500 the motorcycle, there has to be an easier way than spending more than half of what I spent to legally get ownership.

easier? I don't know but the way to obtain title is to have the title transferred through every owner until it gets to you.

What it sounds like is the person you bought it from had the opportunity to obtain a title to the motorcycle, assuming the storage facility had the right to sell the vehicle as an abandoned vehicle, and, of course, followed all the legal requirements of doing such.

So, that buyer would have filed for a title for a vehicle obtained through such a sale and then he would have had a title to transfer to you.

Short of going back to the person that sold it to you and having him obtain a title, and subsequently transferring it to you, the only other actions you might have are suing that same guy for a rescission of the sale to you due to him not having clear and transferable title, using this bike for parts, or junking the thing.

 

[Notitleguy]

be angry at yourself for not researching problems with

buying a vehicle that has no title. That is where all the problems started.

signed from whom? Unless the person that sold it to you had legal title, the

courts cannot take that title and transfer it to you.


You would lose on this one. You got what you bargained for: $75 for a bill of

sale. In reality, you are in the wrong with this situation because you asked for

paperwork you were not legally entitled to. Then, you attempted to use that false

paperwork to obtain the title. I believe that would be fraud, so sure, go ahead

and sue the guy because your scheme didn't work.

illegal but why not try. Legalities haven't stopped you yet.

easier? I don't know but the way to obtain title is to have the title transferred

through every owner until it gets to you.

What it sounds like is the person you bought it from had the opportunity to obtain

a title to the motorcycle, assuming the storage facility had the right to sell the

vehicle as an abandoned vehicle, and, of course, followed all the legal

requirements of doing such.

So, that buyer would have filed for a title for a vehicle obtained through such a

sale and then he would have had a title to transfer to you.

Short of going back to the person that sold it to you and having him obtain a

title, and subsequently transferring it to you, the only other actions you might

have are suing that same guy for a rescission of the sale to you due to him not

having clear and transferable title, using this bike for parts, or junking the

thing.

Comment one:
Perhaps you didn't fully understand what I wrote. I am angry because the rightful

and legal owner did not fufill his agreed contract with me not because I didn't

know what I was getting into. I knew this could be resolved but not the steps

involved.

Comment two:

A bill of sale from the owner that FDMV says owns it, a declaratory judgement will

look at who owns it, what signed documents I have and render ownership. With that ruling I go to FDMV and get a title.

Comment three:
I was told by the FDMV in Tallahassee to do this. I have this in writing on their letterhead. Owner ship of the motorcycle was NEVER legally changed hands ever. Physical ownership did but in the interest of who what where, the state of Florida would have said ownership would have been in a virtual state. Meaning JPoole owned it but it was really in another persons hands. Also suing for court costs might work because I sent him another $50 for the title, NOT bill of sale, the check clearly states this.

Comment four:
If circumventing thousands of dollars in legal fees is your idea of a scheme, then its it's a hat I'll proudly wear. This isn't illegal and NEVER has been. You sound like a paralegal who hasn't learned to think outside the box.

Comment five:

Transfer the title through every owner who had it in their possession? Are you

kidding me that's impossible, that's why I called the DMV over it, they said find the owner they have on records and get a title from him.
If he did leave it in a storage facility, not paying his bill, never giving them the title, then the storage facility never went to get ownership and sold it. Then the original owner still has legal rights to it.
If someone other that the legal owner buys it from the storage facility buys it, guess who legally owns it? Then the original (titled) owner still has legal rights to it.
That is why the state of Floridas DMV told me to do what I did. I found the titled owner, asked for a bill of sale then asked for a title, it's not a scheme by any way or side stepping the law, far from it.

What would you do if you found someone ditched a 1915 ford model T (or for that matter a '63 Ferrari GTO) in a field and you find out who owns the property and they say " you can have it but I don't have a title for it."
Are you saying scrap it? oOr part it out? LOL BIG MISTAKE!
No, you go the the DMV of that state and find out who owns it and try to purchase it from the owner if it's not stolen and in your possesion.
I've done that and I'm looking for an alternative way to get ownership.

I think the legal (in the eyes of the state of Florida)owner has died, I know he had heart issues and been in and out of the hospital since speaking with him. His phone number has been disconnected and I can't find him.

 

[justalayman]

01]Comment one:
Perhaps you didn't fully understand what I wrote. I am angry because the rightful

and legal owner did not fufill his agreed contract with me not because I didn't

know what I was getting into. I knew this could be resolved but not the steps

involved.

then it is your fault for not investigating the process and knowing what you were getting into. Not a big deal, let's get past this. It is truly irrelevant.

Comment two:

A bill of sale from the owner that FDMV says owns it, a declaratory judgement will

look at who owns it, what signed documents I have and render ownership. With that ruling I go to FDMV and get a title.

if you say so, then go for it. I disagree because you cannot possible receive a legally dependable receipt from the named title holder selling it to you because you did not buy it from him.

fraud comes to mind.

Comment three:
I was told by the FDMV in Tallahassee to do this. I have this in writing on their letterhead. Owner ship of the motorcycle was NEVER legally changed hands ever. Physical ownership did but in the interest of who what where, the state of Florida would have said ownership would have been in a virtual state. Meaning JPoole owned it but it was really in another persons hands. Also suing for court costs might work because I sent him another $50 for the title, NOT bill of sale, the check clearly states this.

then all you deserve is he $50 bucks and you are right back to nowhere AND on top of that, you pissed the guy off so he will simply tell the courts the scenario and whoops, there goes your title.

Comment four:
If circumventing thousands of dollars in legal fees is your idea of a scheme, then its it's a hat I'll proudly wear. This isn't illegal and NEVER has been. You sound like a paralegal who hasn't learned to think outside the box.

straying outside of the law is a scheme and since you did not buy the bike from the named title holder, asking him to provide a receipt to you is a scheme.

Comment five:

Transfer the title through every owner who had it in their possession? Are you

kidding me that's impossible, that's why I called the DMV over it, they said find the owner they have on records and get a title from him.

hey, best of luck to you, If it's so simple, then why are you here?

Oh ya, it isn't working out quite that simply.

If he did leave it in a storage facility, not paying his bill, never giving them the title, then the storage facility never went to get ownership and sold it. Then the original owner still has legal rights to it.

wrong.

If someone other that the legal owner buys it from the storage facility buys it, guess who legally owns it?

it depends on what steps are taken to perfect the title.

Then the original (titled) owner still has legal rights to it.

Oh, so you are saying the storage place broke the law by selling the motorcycle.

then here is the simple thing to do:

offer to buy the motorcycle from the legal title holder. Don't be surprised if there is s lien on the title from the storage place (not saying there will be but it is possible). Based on your claims, you can sue the guy you bought the bike from as well for all of your money because he did not have a legal right to sell the bike since he was not the legal owner.

That is why the state of Floridas DMV told me to do what I did. I found the titled owner, asked for a bill of sale then asked for a title, it's not a scheme by any way or side stepping the law, far from it.

well, somebody is breaking a law. Whether it is the guy that sold it to you, the storage facility, or you; I'll let the courts figure that one out.

What would you do if you found someone ditched a 1915 ford model T (or for that matter a '63 Ferrari GTO) in a field and you find out who owns the property and they say " you can have it but I don't have a title for it."
Are you saying scrap it? oOr part it out? LOL BIG MISTAKE!

totally different situation and depending on the exact circumstances, parting it out may be all you can do.

No, you go the the DMV of that state and find out who owns it and try to purchase it from the owner if it's not stolen and in your possesion.
I've done that and I'm looking for an alternative way to get ownership.

you didn't find the bike on the road. You bought it from somebody.

I think the legal (in the eyes of the state of Florida)owner has died, I know he had heart issues and been in and out of the hospital since speaking with him. His phone number has been disconnected and I can't find him

.well, that surely puts a wrench in the works for you then doesn't because now you cannot get a title from him.

Oh well, have fun with your lawn ornament.

 

[Notitleguy]

then it is your fault for not investigating the process and knowing what you were getting into. Not a big deal, let's get past this. It is truly irrelevant.

if you say so, then go for it. I disagree because you cannot possible receive a legally dependable receipt from the named title holder selling it to you because you did not buy it from him.

fraud comes to mind.


then all you deserve is he $50 bucks and you are right back to nowhere AND on top of that, you pissed the guy off so he will simply tell the courts the scenario and whoops, there goes your title.

straying outside of the law is a scheme and since you did not buy the bike from the named title holder, asking him to provide a receipt to you is a scheme.

hey, best of luck to you, If it's so simple, then why are you here?

Oh ya, it isn't working out quite that simply.


wrong.


it depends on what steps are taken to perfect the title.

Oh, so you are saying the storage place broke the law by selling the motorcycle.

then here is the simple thing to do:

offer to buy the motorcycle from the legal title holder. Don't be surprised if there is s lien on the title from the storage place (not saying there will be but it is possible). Based on your claims, you can sue the guy you bought the bike from as well for all of your money because he did not have a legal right to sell the bike since he was not the legal owner.


well, somebody is breaking a law. Whether it is the guy that sold it to you, the storage facility, or you; I'll let the courts figure that one out.

totally different situation and depending on the exact circumstances, parting it out may be all you can do.


you didn't find the bike on the road. You bought it from somebody.



.well, that surely puts a wrench in the works for you then doesn't because now you cannot get a title from him.

Oh well, have fun with your lawn ornament.

Why are you even on this forum if you have nothing constructive to offer?

The comment about the lawn ornament, real funny hack! I could part this out and make 3 x what I paid for it, so pound salt.


Parts can be sold from one party to another, that is fact, not fiction. If I want to title the motorcycle it is in my interest to do it the simplest way possible and not go through the long route. That is why I'm here.

The answer I was looking for is yes that can be done or there's an easier way. I didn't state that clearly from the beginning.

My definition of a scheme is taking possesion of something by illegal means (such as stealing it) and trying to title it legally. I bought it and didn't steal it or purchase though other illegal means, I bought it on Craigslist.

As I stated in my posts, I had the police department come to my house and check the VIN numbers to see if it was stolen. They said it isn't.

I contacted the legal owner according to the state of Florida's Department of Motor Vehicles using their requirements. The legal owner gave me a bill of sale. Then I sent him more money for the title. I have cancelled checks for both agreements. Therefore I bought it from him.

If I choose to go the route with a towing company, it's legal and not a scheme. When I get it built I'll have to send you a picture.

Lawyers use the term fraud in order for you to hire them. I'm smarter than that.

Too bad you're not smart enought to think outside the box, sad isn't it?

 

[justalayman]

otitleguy;2338776]Why are you even on this forum if you have nothing constructive to offer?

cuz I like to be here.

The comment about the lawn ornament, real funny hack! I could part this out and make 3 x what I paid for it, so pound salt.

I thought it was funny. BTW: you can't legally sell the parts either since you don't legally own it.

Parts can be sold from one party to another, that is fact, not fiction. If I want to title the motorcycle it is in my interest to do it the simplest way possible and not go through the long route. That is why I'm here.

and your problem with what I told you? Oh ya, it isn't what you wanted to hear.

The answer I was looking for is yes that can be done or there's an easier way. I didn't state that clearly from the beginning.

I gave you your answer.

My definition of a scheme is taking possesion of something by illegal means (such as stealing it) and trying to title it legally. I bought it and didn't steal it or purchase though other illegal means, I bought it on Craigslist.

well, your definition doesn't mean anything if it is not the correct definition. From Merriam webster:

* Main Entry: 1scheme


3 : a plan or program of action; especially : a crafty or secret one

As I stated in my posts, I had the police department come to my house and check the VIN numbers to see if it was stolen. They said it isn't.

Nobody said it was.

I contacted the legal owner according to the state of Florida's Department of Motor Vehicles using their requirements. The legal owner gave me a bill of sale. Then I sent him more money for the title. I have cancelled checks for both agreements. Therefore I bought it from him.

sure. best of luck with that. If your problems are over, why are you here arguing with me. You would be saying "I got it" I have the title in my name" but you don't, and it appears as you won't.

If I choose to go the route with a towing company, it's legal and not a scheme. When I get it built I'll have to send you a picture.

No, it is not legal and with any luck, the tow truck operator will get caught and lose his business license for doing it.

Lawyers use the term fraud in order for you to hire them. I'm smarter than that.

prosecutors use the term fraud when they are describing a scheme where a person takes possession of something through illegal means. I think that fits here.

Too bad you're not smart enought to think outside the box, sad isn't it?

Too bad you don't have a title to the lawn ornament. sad, itsn't it?

 

[Country Living]

Another problem is each and every time that bike was "sold" title fees and sales tax were due.

It just keeps getting better.

 

[Notitleguy]

Justalayman,

If you have a masters in smartassing I'd say you got your moneys worth but when it come to the law, go back to school and get your money back.

Ever hear of a bonded title?

I didn't think so ya hack

 

[justalayman]

Justalayman,

If you have a masters in smartassing I'd say you got your moneys worth but when it come to the law, go back to school and get your money back.

Ever hear of a bonded title?

I didn't think so ya hack

yep

you got anything to show that it would be available or applicable to your situation?


the answer would be, "no"

lawn ornaments don't need titles.

 

[Notitleguy]

yep

you got anything to show that it would be available or applicable to your situation?


the answer would be, "no"

lawn ornaments don't need titles.

I've got plenty, the facts are you don't have the slightest clue on how things work.
I have three alternative plans, all legal and I'm searching for the cheapest route. If you have nothing constructive to offer then kindly refrain from commenting on this thread.

 

[justalayman]

I've got plenty, the facts are you don't have the slightest clue on how things work.
I have three alternative plans, all legal and I'm searching for the cheapest route. If you have nothing constructive to offer then kindly refrain from commenting on this thread.

You have plenty? then show your proof. Lack of proof makes it really look like you are bluffing, which I know you are; and 3 alternative legal plans, uh, ya, sure. If you say so.

I'll settle for the proof that a bonded title is applicable to your situation.

 

[Notitleguy]

That would involve me loading up the motorcycle an going to Louisana. OK so I've done some research:

One of the following Salvage/Reconstructed Title Documents--
A properly endorsed Louisiana salvage vehicle title, original certificate of salvage, or an out-of-state salvage title, along with notarized bills of sale for a complete chain of ownership
An out-of-state salvage title branded "Unrebuildable," "Unrepairable," etc. can be accepted for retitling in Louisiana as a salvage or reconstructed title, unless, according to the Polk book, the titling state indicates otherwise
A Texas "Nonrepairable Certificate of Title - 95% or More of Vehicle's Actual Cash Value" issued after 9/1/2003 cannot be rebuilt or issued a reconstructed title. A Texas Nonrepairable Certificate of Title prior to 9/1/2003 can be issued a reconstructed title
If a California Certificate of Title is submitted with a"Salvaged" brand, the vehicle has already been reconstructed and no statement of repairs is needed to brand the Louisiana Certificate of Title as "Reconstructed. However, if a California Salvage Certificate is submitted, the vehicle is still considered salvaged and has not been repaired.
An Affidavit of Physical Inspection completed by a law enforcement officer.
A Statement of Repairs (attached) indicating that the vehicle has been repaired. The statement must include a complete description of the vehicle (make, year, model, body style, and VIN) and indicate which parts were repaired or replaced, in addition to where each part was purchased from.

Read it closely big guy, read closely**************...

 

[Notitleguy]

Ever hear of title 42? I didn't think so.