Is my car dealer a fraud and can I sue him based on below incidents ?

[Pranali]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Illinois

I purchased a 32000$ car in Sept 2015 with 3000 down payment and 29000 loan with a loan company named "A". I also had a co-signer. I was asked to wait for 60 days after which I could receive an email with details about loan number and details of how to pay the EMIs. I knew the amount and stuff already. Happy with my first car, I went home.

After 70 days, I still hadn't received and details. I was scared that being late on my payment would affect my and my co-signers credit history so I started following up. The dealer had informed me that my payment is due on 5 December. I followed up with loan company and they always kept saying there is no loan on my ssn or my co-signers or for the VIN number of my car.

I followed up with my dealer for a long time, they never responded properly or paid any attention to me for long.
After 3-4 months, they told me that the loan never got processed and it a fault on their part. They asked me to come down and sign the contract again so that they can process the loan again.

Being a nice person, I signed the contract again after verifying costs, and loan company "A" again mentioned on my car. Documents we sent to my co-signer to sign and he sent it back to the dealer. Before signing they said that there will be no inquire of my credit score ad it already was done when I signed first contract.
I said that I cannot pay 4 EMIs which were missed due to their fault together, so please start loan with EMI from March now, I dint ask a penny of compensation to them for this fault but I only asked them that I could not pay all 5 EMI together. On this they gave me a letter saying as a compensation for our fault we will pay your first 4 EMIs.

Now after the co-signer mails the documents back I asked them for a copy of the new contract. The dealer ignored my mails for long time and finally asked me to come down to their office. I insisted that I could not come so please mail the documents. They did not mail it for long time.

After following up again with them they asked me that we can do the loan for you without co-signer. I was suspicious this time, because if loan was already processed in Sept and they re-processed in March , and I signed documents again why is this change now after signing?
I replied to the dealer with a mail saying I don't want another credit history hit, I don't want sign documents again and I don't want to change my co-signer. Let all be as per the contract I signed and give me a copy of my contract.
They gave me a copy in April with a co-signer on it and the loan company "A" mentioned on it. I was asked to wait 60 days for mails to from loan company to may my 1st EMI. They reduced number of payments should be 56 instead of 60.
I was also given an account number of loan from the loan company "A"

Starting May 10, I started receiving mails from another bank "B" saying that I am late on payments. Based on the amount, I perceived this should be my car loan but the loan company was different. I sent mails to my dealer to ask about it and got no answer. Company "A" still says there is no loan with us.

I went to bank "B" and found out that the loan is with them, without any co-signer and all 60 payments are pending. All of this contradictory to the communication from my dealer. Bank is different for which I never signed a document. I asked them not to remove the co-signer still the co-signer is not present. And there should have been only 56 payments but there were 60 due.

I went down to the dealership office, they are now claiming they gave me wrong documents. They have a document in which they changed the loan company by applying whitener on existing one after I signed it.

I have all documents and mail communications.

Is my dealer fraud based on this and can I make a case against them ? It is a major dealer across multiple states so is it legal for me to sue them.
They have ruined my first car experience with all this mess. Each time I am following up with them and now the lying.

Are these incidents enough to make a legal case against them or does it have no credit ?

 

[Zigner]

What's an "EMI"?

Beyond that, I would suggest that you take your contract for review by a local attorney - there is nothing that we are going to be able to tell you that will help.

 

[Pranali]

EMI is the first payment that i will make, equated monthly installment.

But is it legal for them to remove my cosigner and change me loan bank without my signature and without informing me, even if I explicitly asked them not to remove the co-signer.

 

[Zigner]

EMI is the first payment that i will make, equated monthly installment.

But is it legal for them to remove my cosigner and change me loan bank without my signature and without informing me, even if I explicitly asked them not to remove the co-signer.

I'm not an attorney and I've not reviewed your contract, so there's no way I could guess, but automotive finance contracts often allow the dealer to "shop" the loan around if the first choice is unable or unwilling to do the deal.

(Contract review is beyond the scope of this forum.)

 

[tranquility]

While no one can even guess without reviewing all the documents and going over the facts in detail, I suspect the correct word would be "FUBAR" and not "fraud". There is nothing in what you've written that indicates a fraud. As to if there are things that indicates the dealership did something wrong, is far more difficult.

Certainly, the first place to start is reading all the documents from the start. One I would focus on is the sales document. It will mention things like how the dealer is only helping you get financing and guaranteeing it and the like. Read it closely in regards to what they will and will not do. Then, look at the document(s) you've signed without a co-signer. (You can read the ones with a co-signer as well. But, it does not seem they are relying on those for credit.) You might have been signing a contract with a broker and not a lender. A broker will find the best deal or find the only deal. A lender has to see if they will issue credit.

After reading the paperwork, even if it takes all your free time for a while (ask us if you don't understand a clause), then you must formulate a plan. There, you must accept some realities. First is that you have a vehicle you did not pay full price for. You need a loan to afford the car or you have to turn it back. (Remember that. If the first document relied on you getting a loan the dealer promised to get, you can always give that sweet, sweet ride back. [Side note. I make very good money. I am a bit of a cheapskate [Except for delicious food.] and have a lot in savings. You'd have to threaten me with a poke in the eye with a sharp stick to make me pay $32K for a new car. [Many reasons, "new" is one.] That being said, I bought my wife one for slightly less than that amount. It was red. I think that was a key feature. I love my wife.)

Also, you have to think of your credit rating. I assume the fact you originally needed a co-signer means your super-secret-number-based-on-"things" is not the finest in the land. I understand that. I don't have a great credit number. I pay cash. I don't even have a mortgage any longer. I should start buying things on credit. That seems to make the super secret number better. Yet, I have cash and don't really need a good number. I bet you need a good number. Bad reports to the credit Gods make the super secret number worse. (I say "super secret" because, even though you can get the agency's number, it is not necessarily the same as you get in the free credit report nor has it gone through the magic big data adjustment. Credit ratings are important to those not ready to retire. (Maybe then too. I just don't see it for me.)

Finally, you have the issue of someone who thinks you owe them thousands of dollars. Someone who has some reasonable basis for believing that. Someone who is skilled at collecting things they have a reasonable belief they are owed. You don't want to get out of work to find your car towed, auctioned and your paycheck garnished for the difference. (Again, new vehicle. The moment you drove it off the lot you were upside down.)

I would start papering a defense as you might need a lawyer someday. (All the following is sent certified with return receipt requested.) I would request the paperwork from the dealer and bank "B" as to how this came to be and why the loan was called. I might suggest to bank "b" there is a problem and you would like to see the paperwork that created the loan. Mention that you do not recall signing with bank "b" (Depending on the "first place" I mentioned.) and you might need that to give the police the proper paperwork for the reporting of a potential crime. Hopefully, you get more information. At least it is a start.

You have to start demanding information from everyone now.

You don't own a possessory interest in your sweet, sweet ride that cannot be ended by others in a moment.

You know you owe money to someone, get used to it.

That there was a problem does not mean you would not owe what was expected up front. Start saving like a son-of-a-gun as, the best answer is you pay a bunch of money to someone who gave you a greatly bunch more of money.

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

Off topic: I couldn't remotely afford a $32K car for my first ride. That makes at least two of us on this thread.

 

[Zigner]

Off topic: I couldn't remotely afford a $32K car for my first ride. That makes at least two of us on this thread.

My first ride (at 16 years old) cost $800 - and my dad was pissed because he thought he could talk them down even further...

 

[Pranali]

Thank you so much for the answer.

I do not deny I have to pay my loan. I started savings immediately after I purchased the car and started setting aside each payment even though I dint have to pay it to bank.
My concern here is the deal kept giving me wrong documents even when they have changed by loan to bank B.
They took off the co-signer and there is no document that I have signed which does not have a co-signer. Infact they suggested me that I should sign as co-signer and my brother (who actually wanted to be co-signer) signed as the primary owner.

So in turn they have actually made a co-signer as the primary loan owner and primary owner is no where on the loan.

I have requested documents from bank B also. The dealers are acting real shady and not answering all my questions. They are not able to show me a single document with bank B mentioned.

Anyways, I fought with the dealer and I asked them to take the car back with full refund. They agreed to have a look at the car and decide.
As they are not able to show me requested documents nor are they disclosing information to me so I think they will give me a full refund on the car.

 

[Zigner]

Thank you so much for the answer.

I do not deny I have to pay my loan. I started savings immediately after I purchased the car and started setting aside each payment even though I dint have to pay it to bank.
My concern here is the deal kept giving me wrong documents even when they have changed by loan to bank B.
They took off the co-signer and there is no document that I have signed which does not have a co-signer. Infact they suggested me that I should sign as co-signer and my brother (who actually wanted to be co-signer) signed as the primary owner.

So in turn they have actually made a co-signer as the primary loan owner and primary owner is no where on the loan.

I have requested documents from bank B also. The dealers are acting real shady and not answering all my questions. They are not able to show me a single document with bank B mentioned.

Anyways, I fought with the dealer and I asked them to take the car back with full refund. They agreed to have a look at the car and decide.
As they are not able to show me requested documents nor are they disclosing information to me so I think they will give me a full refund on the car.

I hope it works out for you - but keep in mind that specific banks don't have to be mentioned in your contract.

 

[tranquility]

Thank you so much for the answer.

I do not deny I have to pay my loan. I started savings immediately after I purchased the car and started setting aside each payment even though I dint have to pay it to bank.
My concern here is the deal kept giving me wrong documents even when they have changed by loan to bank B.
They took off the co-signer and there is no document that I have signed which does not have a co-signer. Infact they suggested me that I should sign as co-signer and my brother (who actually wanted to be co-signer) signed as the primary owner.

So in turn they have actually made a co-signer as the primary loan owner and primary owner is no where on the loan.

I have requested documents from bank B also. The dealers are acting real shady and not answering all my questions. They are not able to show me a single document with bank B mentioned.

Anyways, I fought with the dealer and I asked them to take the car back with full refund. They agreed to have a look at the car and decide.
As they are not able to show me requested documents nor are they disclosing information to me so I think they will give me a full refund on the car.

The "co-signer" does not help you in any way except on obtaining the loan. If you get a loan without one, all the better for you. They did not make "a co-signer as the primary loan owner and primary owner is no where on the loan". They just didn't. If you think they did, I suggest you misunderstand the situation. They. Did. Not.

"Full refund"? Probably not. Even if they have to take it back at some point, they get to charge you for your use.

Gather documentation. Try to prove things at some point. You are in a far less advantageous position than you seem to think. To get where you seem to want is going to require an attorney and thousands in costs. That is, unless you can make a legal case yourself. Without all the facts, no one will agree.

Do certified requests. You are well past making a call or two.

 

[Pranali]

Got a full refund.

I found a document at the dealership which someone else signed on behalf of me.. A fake signature. I am guessing this is when I told them I don't want any changes to my loan unless it is necessary. So I think their employee did the changes without telling me or before I signed the documents so he copied my signature to cover his mistake and kept giving me wrong documents all this while. The General Manager went through all the emails and documents, apologized to me and agreed to help me.

They did ask me to pay the 6 payments that I did not pay, For which I showed them all the emails and calls that I made to know how I could make the payments and the dealership did not help me at all. Basically I was always ready to pay but the dealership never told me how I should pay.

I offered to pay for damages on the car (around 1500 as I bumped the car once), but the General manager of the dealership insisted that the dealership will take care of it. In return I should not take any action against them or blog about the incident with their dealership name in it.

 

[tranquility]

I found a document at the dealership which someone else signed on behalf of me.. A fake signature. I am guessing this is when I told them I don't want any changes to my loan unless it is necessary. So I think their employee did the changes without telling me or before I signed the documents so he copied my signature to cover his mistake and kept giving me wrong documents all this while. The General Manager went through all the emails and documents, apologized to me and agreed to help me.

They did ask me to pay the 6 payments that I did not pay, For which I showed them all the emails and calls that I made to know how I could make the payments and the dealership did not help me at all. Basically I was always ready to pay but the dealership never told me how I should pay.

I offered to pay for damages on the car (around 1500 as I bumped the car once), but the General manager of the dealership insisted that the dealership will take care of it. In return I should not take any action against them or blog about the incident with their dealership name in it.

That seems like a very good outcome. You might be able to push for a bit more if they are admitting one of their employees committed actual fraud, but, I'd probably like everything to be done and over. You might demand a promise they will indemnify you if there are any ramifications to your credit because of the error.