Plumbing contractor bill - legal recourse?

[AndrewW]

Thanks all, for looking at my question. First, I'm in Seattle, WA, and my question relates to a plumbing bill I received, after firing the company for continually increasing their price for the work to be performed.

Background: I'm having plumbing work done at my house by a local company the cost is skyrocketing out of control. What started as a $500 service call has become $19,000 of main sewer line work, and this isn't even all the work needed. Over New Year's day (Friday) and Saturday they spent time working, giving me updated costs along the way. Each time the price would go up they'd go over what additional work was needed, and I'd sign a contract for that price (they didn't explain this was a contract at the time, I thought I was signing an estimate). The last 'contract' I signed was for $19,000 and change. On Sunday I called a couple other places and found out I was being gouged, for lack of a better word. I fired plumbers but I owe them something for the 2 days they spent on site.

I just got a call from the supervisor and the bill for the 2 days is what I believe to be obscene. Close to $10,000 for 2 days of digging, and equipment rental. According to the other plumber I talked to (who would be finishing their work) he values the work they did at about $2500. Among other things, there is $180/hr * 40+ hours of plumber time, and backhoe rental etc... I think these rates are ridiculous, but I don't know what other options I have but to pay it, or have them complete the job since they're already half way into the cost anyway. What recourse do I have in refuting these amounts? Do I have to accept these amounts or do I have any legal ground in saying the work is only worth, say $4000. Thanks everyone.

Andrew

 

[Zigner]

The time to comparison shop is BEFORE signing the CONTRACT.

 

[AndrewW]

The time to comparison shop is BEFORE signing the CONTRACT.

You're right, what else can I say. Not making excuses, but when you're family is without plumbing and you're back is against the wall, so to speak, well lets just say I wasn't thinking as soundly as I wish that I had. If they had come to me with a 19k estimate from the beginning, I would have shopped around definitely. But the bill kept going up, as they spent more time on site, and I just got in deeper and deeper and didn't know when to pull the plug on this. Obviously now I wish I had much earlier.

But what's done is done, and now I'm trying to understand all my options. Do I have any recourse to negotiate their bill for the time they've already spent out there?

 

[Zigner]

You're right, what else can I say. Not making excuses, but when you're family is without plumbing and you're back is against the wall, so to speak, well lets just say I wasn't thinking as soundly as I wish that I had. If they had come to me with a 19k estimate from the beginning, I would have shopped around definitely. But the bill kept going up, as they spent more time on site, and I just got in deeper and deeper and didn't know when to pull the plug on this. Obviously now I wish I had much earlier.

But what's done is done, and now I'm trying to understand all my options. Do I have any recourse to negotiate their bill for the time they've already spent out there?

Absolutely - call them up and negotiate. However, you must understand that THEY are in the right and YOU are the one who has violated the terms of the contract that you freely entered in to.

 

[AndrewW]

Absolutely understand that - however I don't believe the contract I signed comes into play at all. As I understand it, a contract like this has a 3 business-day right to cancel attached to it, where this would be day 1. Again I do want to pay them for their time I just don't think there's anything (legally at least) to having signed a contract with them.

I guess it comes down to: I value their time at x, and they value it at y. How ugly can this get, and who has the leverage in negotiating the final price.

 

[BL]

If the second plumber is reliable and established in the business and believes all the work the Co. you contracted with is legit and the Co. IS gouging ,contact your local Office of Attorney General's Consumer Affairs Dept.

If the second plumber believes extra work wasn't necessary ,then fight it .

Either way get an estimate of the entire needed job broken down of what this second plumber will charge and would have charged ,for comparison on reliable business document.

You could always use the estimate and written opinion as a negotiating tool.

You might even consider a 3rd reliable estimate ,and written opinion.

If the first Co. wasn't gouging , then you signed the contract and would be in breach.

 

[AndrewW]

If the second plumber is reliable and established in the business and believes all the work the Co. you contracted with is legit and the Co. IS gouging ,contact your local Office of Attorney General's Consumer Affairs Dept.

If the second plumber believes extra work wasn't necessary ,then fight it .

Either way get an estimate of the entire needed job broken down of what this second plumber will charge and would have charged ,for comparison on reliable business document.

You could always use the estimate and written opinion as a negotiating tool.

You might even consider a 3rd reliable estimate ,and written opinion.

If the first Co. wasn't gouging , then you signed the contract and would be in breach.

thanks for your reply, I appreciate the help. The second contractor didn't believe all the digging was necessary, however to be fair I think that's one contractors opinion vs. another's. At a basic level, the whole sewer line did need to be replaced, it's a matter of what cost. The first contractor has now disclosed they charge $180/hour plus the cost of the specialty tools they use (camera, snake, etc...) which I believe to be egregious.

You mentioned "if the contractor is gouging" - how do I prove one way or another? Part of what makes this difficult is the apparently subjectivity in pricing. Thanks again for your reply, if nothing else I'm learning a great deal about this process, hopefully to never be repeated again.

 

[BL]

thanks for your reply, I appreciate the help. The second contractor didn't believe all the digging was necessary, however to be fair I think that's one contractors opinion vs. another's. At a basic level, the whole sewer line did need to be replaced, it's a matter of what cost. The first contractor has now disclosed they charge $180/hour plus the cost of the specialty tools they use (camera, snake, etc...) which I believe to be egregious.

You mentioned "if the contractor is gouging" - how do I prove one way or another? Part of what makes this difficult is the apparently subjectivity in pricing. Thanks again for your reply, if nothing else I'm learning a great deal about this process, hopefully to never be repeated again.

On Sunday I called a couple other places and found out I was being gouged, for lack of a better word.

You said you found out that you were .

So , what does both these other places say specifically ?

Who's the Co. that did the work ? Roto-Rooter ?

If they actually had a camera ,why could the use it to see what was going on in the first place and give you an estimate for the total cost ?

I understand some things can pop up unexpectedly , but with all the tech. equipment it shouldn't have turned out price increases ,little by little along the way ?

 

[AndrewW]

Well I truly believe the price they're charging is excessive, which is why I feel "gouged" - the question I'm asking myself is how do I go about proving it? Beacon Plumbing feels one way, I feel another. My gut feeling is if I tell them I'll pay what I believe to be reasonable, and if they don't like it to pound sand, but I'm sure that's a quick recipe for a lien on the property and a court date. I'd like to resolve this amicably, if we can.

The second guy thinks I should pay $55/hr for their work. $2500 total. Beacon wants 9k, or for 13k total they'll finish the job. This was a concession by them, down from the original 19k I signed the contract for. I feel better, but even at 13k, it's still about 4k over average market cost.

The line was broken in many places, so they'd camera down the pipe and find a break, give me a quote, dig the hole, reinsert the camera further, find another break, repeat. All the way to 19k.

I'm just really trying to do the right thing, both for myself, and for Beacon Plumbing. I'm not looking to rip them off for their time and effort, I'm just looking for the same from them.

You said you found out that you were .

So , what does both these other places say specifically ?

Who's the Co. that did the work ? Roto-Rooter ?

If they actually had a camera ,why could the use it to see what was going on in the first place and give you an estimate for the total cost ?

I understand some things can pop up unexpectedly , but with all the tech. equipment it shouldn't have turned out price increases ,little by little along the way ?

 

[BL]

It sounds like they've already agreed to come down 6 grand on the total price .

You have to go over and have them break down the cost,etc . and determine if their final offer is fair ,and the consequences of not paying ,and your cost associated with breach of contract .

If you decide their final price is fair ,get in in writing that the final offer will satisfy the completed job.

Just to give you some Idea of cost .

http://www.costhelper.com/cost/home-garden/sewer-line.html]Cost of Sewer Line Replacement - Get Prices and Estimates - CostHelper.com[/U]

Plus you have rental equipment .Their time for travel with the equipment plus rental cost ,labor ,etc .

The cost of sewage line,etc.

The length and depth of digging .Any objects to work around .

You will have to go over with them and then determine if it's fair .

Remember they already offered to take 6 grand off .