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Quick one...Can I sue New GM?

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RRU

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL

Bought a used 2008 Pontiac in Sept of 2009 with 100 miles from a GM dealer that go it from a bankrupt dealer auction. It had a fully transferable OLD GM warranty. Now GM won't fix it for warranty problems. Can I sue them in small claims court?
 
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tranquility

Senior Member
While I suspect there will be a different result from the health care decisions to come (As in, immunity will apply to decisions.), I don't think the governmental munificence to GM has given them immunity from suit.

Small claims will be OK.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
did you transfer the warranty as required?

what was the dealerships justification?

Now GM won't fix it for warranty problems.
GM or the dealership? GM doesn't fix anything. They pay dealerships to fix GM vehicles under GM's warranty.

So, have you actually spoken to somebody from GM or did you speak only to somebody at the dealership?


as far as I know, New GM took on all the warranties from Old GM. The government even put in money to be sure that even if GM closed it's doors, the warranties would still be in effect.

I would suggest taking the same old steps you used to before we had Old GM and New GM and that would be to contact the zone rep. A dealership does not have the option of covering or not covering a warranty. They are bound by their contracts with GM to provide warranty service so you need to speak with somebody actually from GM, not a dealership to light the fire under the dealership.
 

RRU

Junior Member
did you transfer the warranty as required?

what was the dealerships justification?

GM or the dealership? GM doesn't fix anything. They pay dealerships to fix GM vehicles under GM's warranty.

So, have you actually spoken to somebody from GM or did you speak only to somebody at the dealership?


as far as I know, New GM took on all the warranties from Old GM. The government even put in money to be sure that even if GM closed it's doors, the warranties would still be in effect.

I would suggest taking the same old steps you used to before we had Old GM and New GM and that would be to contact the zone rep. A dealership does not have the option of covering or not covering a warranty. They are bound by their contracts with GM to provide warranty service so you need to speak with somebody actually from GM, not a dealership to light the fire under the dealership.

The car window rubs the convertible top resulting in rips and frays to the top in that area. I notice it when the damage first appeared. Take it to the dealer and they send pictures to GM. Two weeks later, I chase down the Service Advisor at the dealer who says "that GM says it's not a warranty issue, but as a good faith gesture we can send it to a upholstery shop and see what they can do to patch it". I say no "things need to be realigned and I need a new -not ripped not patched top- and then I call GM.
GM bounces me around like a jerk and finally the District Person tells me that they don't consider it a warranty issue (sounds familiar). I say fine but I think you're wrong and things are going to go a new direction if that's your final answer.

I send GM a 'demand letter' describing the situation, asking for them to fix the problem and replace the damaged parts. Otherwise it's going to go to third party mediation and potentionally legal action.

They call me up and tell me to go ahead and do that.

I contacted the Better Business Bureau as described in the GM warranty book....but they sitting around doing nothing. Anemic and lethargic.

I started to order parts for the car and I'll probably just begin to have it fixed. I'll have to try to recoop the costs in small claims.

I just need to be sure that this won't backfire.
1. I own the vehicle and the car was bought after GM came out of bankruptcy
2. the car was sold to me with a document stating that existing, transferable "manufactures warranty" was in force
3. the warranty hasn't expired and will not for a period of years going forward
4. the dealer and GM have refused service
5. BBB can suck it
6. I've started to fix the car and plan to finish restoring the vehicle to non-damaged condition

I can truck this all into small claims and not expect to recieve some kind of motion two days before the appearance indicating that GM isn't liable due to bankrupcty or executive order or something that I don't undertand?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What reason do they give for it not being a warranty issue? It sounds to me like they are claiming that the vehicle has been damaged, causing the misalignment.

Why do you think it IS a warranty issue?
 

justalayman

Senior Member
I see. It's not that they are denying there is a warranty. They are simply denying this as a warranty claim. Big difference but same effective result for you.

I don't remember the process for transferring a GM warranty to a subsequent owner but you need to be sure that was done. If you have failed to do that, they have every right to deny you for a lack of warranty whether it was coverable under the warranty or not.

Part of the problem is; just who do you intend on suing? The dealer cannot stand in for GM and the dealer does not have any liability in this matter. They are not GM. You will have to sue GM and unless you are in the same state as GM, you are going to have a problem with your states court having jurisdiction over GM.

GM is still incorporated in Michigan the last I knew. You might have to take action in Michigan and under their laws. Hopefully one of the guys that understands jurisdiction better than I do will comment.

Then, understand you will be confronted with an attorney. GM will have to have an attorney represent them.

Best of luck to you. I don't have any clue how it will turn out. Stop back and let us know if you would.
 

RRU

Junior Member
What reason do they give for it not being a warranty issue? It sounds to me like they are claiming that the vehicle has been damaged, causing the misalignment.

Why do you think it IS a warranty issue?
Why...
1. is it reasoneable to expect that a convertible car top should not be shredded by the vehilce's window?
2. there is no service or wear schedule for the top in the manual
3. no GM service bulletin has been issued for a 'fix'
4. if I survey many convertible tops on other cars will I find a similar rip or wear pattern?
5. The car was presented to the dealer with 4500 mile and it was not subject to unusual or offroa use and no extreme situations

No damage. I bought the car with 100 miles on it from an authroized dealer who picked it up from a bankrupt dealer. On inspection it looks fine and Carfax says no accidents or damage.

I see. It's not that they are denying there is a warranty. They are simply denying this as a warranty claim. Big difference but same effective result for you.

I don't remember the process for transferring a GM warranty to a subsequent owner but you need to be sure that was done. If you have failed to do that, they have every right to deny you for a lack of warranty whether it was coverable under the warranty or not.

Part of the problem is; just who do you intend on suing? The dealer cannot stand in for GM and the dealer does not have any liability in this matter. They are not GM. You will have to sue GM and unless you are in the same state as GM, you are going to have a problem with your states court having jurisdiction over GM.

GM is still incorporated in Michigan the last I knew. You might have to take action in Michigan and under their laws. Hopefully one of the guys that understands jurisdiction better than I do will comment.

Then, understand you will be confronted with an attorney. GM will have to have an attorney represent them.

Best of luck to you. I don't have any clue how it will turn out. Stop back and let us know if you would.
I called GM to veryify the transferrable warranty right after I bought it. They would not provide me with a document (seems like they never do) but the dealership provided me with a "with warranty' thing that verifies that sale includes the manufacturer's warraty for 48,000 or 4 years; of course I am in possession of that.

I expect to take GM to court, now. It is my understanding that the dealer is just a agent (tool). I figured that they will send an attorney and he will try a bunch of legal stuff so I wanted to make sure that I had all of my big ducks in a row, at least for logistics of "if I can expect to take GM to small claims court in Illinois and have a case that CAN legally be heard". I've been to small claims twice. Once vs Best Buy and once vs. Fender instruments. The Best Buy attorney was making motions left and right. The judge was like....'get over it; you're in small claims, Mr Mason' and Fender never sent anyone.

SE Michigan is a nice drive from Chicago. I'm happy to make the trip. It would be nice to know if I need to make the trip.

(BTW....I appreciate everyone's help)
 
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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Why...
1. is it reasoneable to expect that a convertible car top should not be shredded by the vehilce's window?
2. there is no service or wear schedule for the top in the manual
3. no GM service bulletin has been issued for a 'fix'
4. if I survey many convertible tops on other cars will I find a similar rip or wear pattern?
5. The car was presented to the dealer with 4500 mile and it was not subject to unusual or offroa use and no extreme situations

No damage. I bought the car with 100 miles on it from an authroized dealer who picked it up from a bankrupt dealer. On inspection it looks fine and Carfax says no accidents or damage.



I called GM to veryify the transferrable warranty right after I bought it. They would not provide me with a document (seems like they never do) but the dealership provided me with a "with warranty' thing that verifies that sale includes the manufacturer's warraty for 48,000 or 4 years; of course I am in possession of that.

I expect to take GM to court, now. It is my understanding that the dealer is just a agent (tool). I figured that they will send an attorney and he will try a bunch of legal stuff so I wanted to make sure that I had all of my big ducks in a row, at least for logistics of "if I can expect to take GM to small claims court in Illinois and have a case that CAN legally be heard". I've been to small claims twice. Once vs Best Buy and once vs. Fender instruments. The Best Buy attorney was making motions left and right. The judge was like....'get over it; your in small claims, Mr Mason' and Fender never sent anyone.

SE Michigan is a nice drive from Chicago. I'm happy to make the trip. It would be nice to know if I need to make the trip.

(BTW....I appreciate everyone's help)
Carfax would not report every bit of damage. It is possible that YOU damaged the car, causing the problem. (Devil's advocate). Heck, leaning on the door with a lot of weight could cause the door to become improperly aligned.
 

RRU

Junior Member
Carfax would not report every bit of damage. It is possible that YOU damaged the car, causing the problem. (Devil's advocate). Heck, leaning on the door with a lot of weight could cause the door to become improperly aligned.
Not bloody likely! Anything is possible; I'm sure that will come up at some point going forward, but the assertion is without merit and can't be supported. The car was inspected by the dealer who made no such indication. It is available for inspection at any time (discovery?).
 
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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Not bloody likely! Anything is possible; I'm sure that will come up at some point going forward, but the assertion is without merit and can't be supported. The car was inspected by the dealer who made no such indication. It is available for inspection at any time (discovery?).
You've received a bunch of information here. You will need to prove that the item should be covered under warranty. You will need the testimony (an affidavit likely won't fly) of an expert to bolster your side of the argument in court. I wish you luck.
 

RRU

Junior Member
You've received a bunch of information here. You will need to prove that the item should be covered under warranty. You will need the testimony (an affidavit likely won't fly) of an expert to bolster your side of the argument in court. I wish you luck.
As long as it can be heard and judged in small claims court and the judgement is enforceable, I'll take my chances with what I have; Dealer to dealer transfer, carfax report and no evidence to the contrary. No damage to the vehilce other than that due to a defect has occured in my posesion and no documentation of damage has been cited by the delaer or by GM. They have just refused and offered a 'good faith' gesture to patch it.

My biased opionion is that they tried to bargain a deal to minimize out of pocket expenses and I didn't bite. I suppose they didn't expect me to take the hard line. They might as well put up red tape and force me into the leragc BBB system. I'm sure many people just take the easy way.

That sounds much more plausible and is much easier to prove then "we suspect mystery damage cause by radioactive spaceships"?
 

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