Refund issues from returned goods. Montana

[ob1coby]

Is this legal? I'm in Mt. dealer is in Ca.

I ordered 4 wheels. They were the wrong color (different issue) so the dealer offered a full refund. When the wheels were returned, I received this email from him:

We have received your 4 wheels back today that were not picked up. 1
Wheel arrived in perfect condition and has been refunded. 3 of the
wheels have arrived back to us damaged from shipping. One wheel was
even in the box upside down.

We have filed a FedEx claim for the 3 damaged wheels. FedEx normally
takes about 5-15 days to process a claim and get back to us. We will
gladly issue a refund for whatever amount FedEx will give us back for
the damaged wheels.


1 Can it be legal for them to hold my money ransom until they get reimbursed from FedEx?


2 Can it be legal for them to reimburse me for less if FedEx reimburses them less?

thankyou for any help.

 

[justalayman]

did you ship them back or did the merchant have them shipped back?

You may have an issue with the one packaged incorrectly regardless of that answer.

 

[sandyclaus]

Is this legal? I'm in Mt. dealer is in Ca.

I ordered 4 wheels. They were the wrong color (different issue) so the dealer offered a full refund. When the wheels were returned, I received this email from him:

We have received your 4 wheels back today that were not picked up. 1
Wheel arrived in perfect condition and has been refunded. 3 of the
wheels have arrived back to us damaged from shipping. One wheel was
even in the box upside down.

We have filed a FedEx claim for the 3 damaged wheels. FedEx normally
takes about 5-15 days to process a claim and get back to us. We will
gladly issue a refund for whatever amount FedEx will give us back for
the damaged wheels.


1 Can it be legal for them to hold my money ransom until they get reimbursed from FedEx?


2 Can it be legal for them to reimburse me for less if FedEx reimburses them less?

thankyou for any help.

They aren't holding your money for ransom. They shipped you wheels in new condition, and the ones they received back were damaged. Either they got damaged in shipping, in which case they can file a claim with FedEx (which they have done), or they were damaged by YOU before you shipped them back.

If the wheels were damaged in shipping, and you properly packed the wheels in the boxes, FedEx should be able to reimburse for the damaged wheels up to the declared/insured value. If YOU shipped them back on your dime, I hope that you declared the appropriate value and packed the wheels appropriately. If you didn't, then the loss will be on you for your failure to properly insure the shipment for its full value and/or secure the wheels in the shipment. If the seller paid for the return shipment, and didn't properly insure the package for the proper declared value, then that's an issue you may have to take up with the shipper - especially if they claim that FedEx reimburses them for something less than the actual value of the new, undamaged wheels you returned.

 

[ob1coby]

OK, so based on all of your input I went to FedEx and got some more info. The wheels were returned as "refused", so according to FedEx the original shipper had to pay for the returned shipping under their account and as such falls under their insurance. FedEx won't however tell me the amount since it is not my account. BUT the FedEx guy remembers me and the wheels and remembers that they were brand new and un-damaged when I left them at FedEx.

So, I'm back to my original questions.

Is it legal for them to hold my money until FedEx reimburses them?
Can they legally refund me less than I paid?

Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions. Is there any laws that protect me? This just can't be right.

 

[justalayman]

OK, so based on all of your input I went to FedEx and got some more info. The wheels were returned as "refused",

How did you know they were the wrong color if you did not receive them?

 

[ob1coby]

How did you know they were the wrong color if you did not receive them?

The color was listed on the boxes. It was actually the suggestion of the shipper to "refuse" them. That may become a different issue, but I'm trying to avoid that for now. Is it relevant to my current questions?

 

[justalayman]

The color was listed on the boxes. It was actually the suggestion of the shipper to "refuse" them. That may become a different issue, but I'm trying to avoid that for now. Is it relevant to my current questions?

It's absolutely relevant.

How do you explain that if you never received them?

One wheel was
even in the box upside down.

 

[ob1coby]

It's absolutely relevant.

How do you explain that if you never received them?

A "refused" shipment doesn't mean that the wheels were not received? In fact I think it means they WERE received. They were refused because they were the wrong color. They never even made it out of the FedEx warehouse. How can that possibly justify them holding my money for FedEx damages or for refunding me less than I paid?

I don't understand his "upside down" comment yet. I've been trying to find out from him. The wheels were in cardboard boxes. One way is no different than the other and there was no indication on the boxes of direction.

 

[ob1coby]

You folks on this site must get a lot of dishonest people asking questions so your automatically suspicious of them. So, let me try this from a different approach.

1. If a customer returns a product to a business for a refund, can that business hold the customers money for shipper damage?? (the customer can verify that the items were in perfect condition)

2. Can the business legally refund less than the purchase price?

 

[justalayman]

ob1coby;3226258]A "refused" shipment doesn't mean that the wheels were not received?

Yes, it does. If the fedex man comes to your house you have two choices:

he leaves them at your house

he takes them with him after you tell him you will not accept them


first one; it was received
second one; it was refused

The wheels were in cardboard boxes. One way is no different than the other and there was no indication on the boxes of direction.

So you are saying when you took it out to look at it and put it back in there was no indication which way "was up", correct?

 

[justalayman]

1. If a customer returns a product to a business for a refund, can that business hold the customers money for shipper damage?? (the customer can verify that the items were in perfect condition)

yes but explain how you can verify the items were in perfect condition.

2. Can the business legally refund less than the purchase price?

yes

Of course in trying to simplify the statement you made it less meaningful.

The fact is, the merchant can hold all of the money. Now, whether they are "due" the retention or not is a different story. Beyond that, there are myriad variables that could make a difference.

It is not illegal to refund less than the purchase price because it is not with criminal intent. They may be improperly withholding the money or even unlawfully withholding it but they may also be withholding it because they believe they are do the retention.

 

[ob1coby]

OK now were getting down to the brass tax here. Thank you for your time, unfortunately your verbiage is over my head. I guess I don't understand the term "retention" the way your using it.

The wheels never made it from the FedEx location. They were held at the FedEx location. When I went to pick them up I saw that they were the wrong color. While I was discussing it with the business (two days later), the FedEx warehouse manager (trying to help) sent them back (without my instruction) because the business had suggested it.

This is terribly depressing, but I'm getting ready to start a business so it is good info as well.

In fact that would be a great way to make money. I'll send customers the wrong product. Then when they are returned damaged, I'll hold the customers money for an indefinite period of time while telling them that the shipper has not reimbursed me yet, then I'll only give the customer back a portion of his original payment because he has no legal rights to his full payment when he didn't get the item that he ordered. Genius. Especially if the customer cannot prove that there was "intent"

Sorry for the sarcasm. I honestly believed that consumers had some legal rights. I really do appreciate your time. Sorry I don't understand the terminology better.

 

[LdiJ]

OK now were getting down to the brass tax here. Thank you for your time, unfortunately your verbiage is over my head. I guess I don't understand the term "retention" the way your using it.

The wheels never made it from the FedEx location. They were held at the FedEx location. When I went to pick them up I saw that they were the wrong color. While I was discussing it with the business (two days later), the FedEx warehouse manager (trying to help) sent them back (without my instruction) because the business had suggested it.

This is terribly depressing, but I'm getting ready to start a business so it is good info as well.

In fact that would be a great way to make money. I'll send customers the wrong product. Then when they are returned damaged, I'll hold the customers money for an indefinite period of time while telling them that the shipper has not reimbursed me yet, then I'll only give the customer back a portion of his original payment because he has no legal rights to his full payment when he didn't get the item that he ordered. Genius. Especially if the customer cannot prove that there was "intent"

Sorry for the sarcasm. I honestly believed that consumers had some legal rights. I really do appreciate your time. Sorry I don't understand the terminology better.

Its not the terminology so much, as the fact that you were not explaining the facts clearly, and perhaps not understanding why questions were being asked....I think I understand what happened, but you tell me if I am wrong....

Fed Ex did not deliver to your home. You went to their warehouse to pick up the shipment. You never opened the boxes because you could tell from the outside markings that they were the wrong color.

The boxes were returned to the shipper as "refused" at the suggestion of the shipper.

The boxes arrived back to the shipper, damaged. They are refusing to refund you until they get reimbursed from Fed Ex. They think that you opened at least one box and repacked it improperly.

If all of the above is true, then you do have recourse if they do not refund you in full...because they shipped the wrong product and you never took possession of it. How did you pay for the wheels?

 

[justalayman]

OK now were getting down to the brass tax here. Thank you for your time, unfortunately your verbiage is over my head. I guess I don't understand the term "retention" the way your using it.

The wheels never made it from the FedEx location. They were held at the FedEx location. When I went to pick them up I saw that they were the wrong color. While I was discussing it with the business (two days later), the FedEx warehouse manager (trying to help) sent them back (without my instruction) because the business had suggested it.

retention; to keep or hold; retain

You didn't address this:

You:
The wheels were in cardboard boxes. One way is no different than the other and there was no indication on the boxes of direction.

Me:
So you are saying when you took it out to look at it and put it back in there was no indication which way "was up", correct?

 

[Zigner]

retention; to keep or hold; retain

You didn't address this:

OP has said several times that he never even opened the boxes. The color is listed on the outside of the boxes. OP saw the labeling showed the incorrect color and refused the packages at the FedEx warehouse.

I think the biggest problem the OP has is that any legal action would need to happen in CA, not in his home state of MT. If the OP paid with a credit card, his best recourse may be through his credit card company.