when does car ownership change hands

[JamesCC]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I just sold my car on which I owe money. The payoff is half of the sale price, so I have money coming to me. The lienholder is the finance arm of a major dealer. The buyer is the local dealer of a different major brand.

The buyer (though obviously in the role of seller dealer must have dealt electronically when selling cars) FedExed overnight a check for the payoff. The lienholder received it but has put a 10 day hold on it before it will transfer the title. It doesn't have a physical title but an electronic record with the CA DMV. The processing time for a title transfer in the DMV is up to 21 days.

Sooo... it will be 30 days or so before the buyer gets the title in the mail and then pay me. (They refuse to pay me before getting the title.) In the meantime, the car is at the buyer's lot.

The lienholder still has the (electronic) title. The payoff check has been cashed. I have sold the car. Since the buyer can't register the car without the title, it is still in my name. Who actually owns the car at the moment?

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I just sold my car on which I owe money. The payoff is half of the sale price, so I have money coming to me. The lienholder is the finance arm of a major dealer. The buyer is the local dealer of a different major brand.

The buyer (though obviously in the role of seller dealer must have dealt electronically when selling cars) FedExed overnight a check for the payoff. The lienholder received it but has put a 10 day hold on it before it will transfer the title. It doesn't have a physical title but an electronic record with the CA DMV. The processing time for a title transfer in the DMV is up to 21 days.

Sooo... it will be 30 days or so before the buyer gets the title in the mail and then pay me. (They refuse to pay me before getting the title.) In the meantime, the car is at the buyer's lot.

The lienholder still has the (electronic) title. The payoff check has been cashed. I have sold the car. Since the buyer can't register the car without the title, it is still in my name. Who actually owns the car at the moment?

From a legal perspective, the dealer owns the car. However, the title is still in your name.

 

[latigo]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I just sold my car on which I owe money. The payoff is half of the sale price, so I have money coming to me. The lienholder is the finance arm of a major dealer. The buyer is the local dealer of a different major brand.

The buyer (though obviously in the role of seller dealer must have dealt electronically when selling cars) FedExed overnight a check for the payoff. The lienholder received it but has put a 10 day hold on it before it will transfer the title. It doesn't have a physical title but an electronic record with the CA DMV. The processing time for a title transfer in the DMV is up to 21 days.

Sooo... it will be 30 days or so before the buyer gets the title in the mail and then pay me. (They refuse to pay me before getting the title.) In the meantime, the car is at the buyer's lot.

The lienholder still has the (electronic) title. The payoff check has been cashed. I have sold the car. Since the buyer can't register the car without the title, it is still in my name. Who actually owns the car at the moment?

If it were personal property other than a motor vehicle, ownership would pass according to the mutual intentions of the buyer and seller, possession changing hands or not

But motor vehicles are unique in this respect as state regulations preempt the general laws applying to personal property such that ownership can only be evidenced by the name shown on the certificate of title which corresponds to the state records. And this your buyer won't know until he receives it.

Sooo . . . why should he pay you before the state of California says it is his?

 

[Zigner]

If it were personal property other than a motor vehicle, ownership would pass according to the mutual intentions of the buyer and seller, possession changing hands or not

But motor vehicles are unique in this respect as state regulations preempt the general laws applying to personal property such that ownership can only be evidenced by the name shown on the certificate of title which corresponds to the state records. And this your buyer won't know until he receives it.

Sooo . . . why should he pay you before the state of California says it is his?

Are you saying that the OP can run on over and pick up the car? I think not.

 

[JamesCC]

So who owns the car as of this moment.

It is a straight forward legal question.If no one knows th3 answer, that's fine.

 

[Zigner]

So who owns the car as of this moment.

It is a straight forward legal question.If no one knows th3 answer, that's fine.

Right now, the DEALER owns the car. But, as far as the state is concerned, YOU own the car. But, that doesn't mean that you actually own it.

See? Crystal clear

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Technically, the title is in transition. For purposes of issuing a ticket or citation, it will go against the owner of record. For other purposes, the cloud on such a title while in transition will be handled as they occur.

 

[JamesCC]

Thanks for the replies. It is still confusing. The car is in the buyer's hands (a Mercedes dealer). The electronic title is with my original financing company - a major brand. I don't have the car, but won't get paid until 30 days after the sale.

OT rant: When I was selling the car, I was told by various dealer agents that I would be paid immediately or within 3-5 days. Even the lienholder agent said that. Obviously, one or all of them know that it is not true. Only after I signed the papers did the manager said that it may take 1 or 2 weeks, sometimes longer. Yep, 30 days is longer.

Car dealers deserve all their reputation for shadyness and propensity for lying.