Can I sell a picture postcard as a picture?

[Polaris]

What is the name of your state? CA.

If I buy a picture postcard, can I put that postcard in a frame and sell it, legally?

[averad]

I believe you need the approval of the licensee who distributes them (for the frame and the post card unless they are your original work or product).

[buggywhip maker]

As long as you're not passing the image off as your own work, it shouldn't be a problem. Frame shops and other businesses routinely resell posters, prints, etc, after adding value to the product.

[divgradcurl]

Originally Posted by Polaris

What is the name of your state? CA.

If I buy a picture postcard, can I put that postcard in a frame and sell it, legally?

Yes, as long as you are not reproducing the postcard to do so. If you purchase a postcard each time you sell a framed picture, then that is perfectly legal.

[divgradcurl]

Originally Posted by averad

I believe you need the approval of the licensee who distributes them (for the frame and the post card unless they are your original work or product).

Just FYI, this is incorrect. The first sale doctrine will allow someone who purchases a copyrighted work to resell that work.

[divgradcurl]

Originally Posted by buggywhip maker

As long as you're not passing the image off as your own work, it shouldn't be a problem. Frame shops and other businesses routinely resell posters, prints, etc, after adding value to the product.

Just FYI, there is no general right to attribution in the United States. While what you've written would be true in most countries, there is no law requiring attribution in the U.S., and no law prohibiting you from selling such a work as your own work.

There are some limited protections for attribution in trademark law, but none in copyright law.

EDIT: Actually, there is a limited right to attribution under copyright law for certain motion pictures, but that's it.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by divgradcurl

Just FYI, there is no general right to attribution in the United States. While what you've written would be true in most countries, there is no law requiring attribution in the U.S., and no law prohibiting you from selling such a work as your own work.

There are some limited protections for attribution in trademark law, but none in copyright law.

EDIT: Actually, there is a limited right to attribution under copyright law for certain motion pictures, but that's it.

So... I'm still okay with the post card?

[divgradcurl]

Yes, as long as you are not reproducing the postcard to do so. If you purchase a postcard each time you sell a framed picture, then that is perfectly legal.

[buggywhip maker]

Originally Posted by divgradcurl

Just FYI, there is no general right to attribution in the United States. While what you've written would be true in most countries, there is no law requiring attribution in the U.S., and no law prohibiting you from selling such a work as your own work.

There are some limited protections for attribution in trademark law, but none in copyright law.

EDIT: Actually, there is a limited right to attribution under copyright law for certain motion pictures, but that's it.

I'm not so clear on what you mean. I stated that as long as the OP did not claim the image as his own, there should be no problem. Are you saying the OP can claim the image as his own work, or that the value-added, framed product, including the image, is his "work"?

[divgradcurl]

Originally Posted by buggywhip maker

I'm not so clear on what you mean. I stated that as long as the OP did not claim the image as his own, there should be no problem. Are you saying the OP can claim the image as his own work, or that the value-added, framed product, including the image, is his "work"?

The OP could claim the image as his or her own -- the original photographer or copyright owner has no "right" to attribution. Of course, the OP would have no rights to the image, other than the very lmited rights acquired when the postcard is purchased -- but it is not illegal to take credit for someone else's work, except if very limited circumstances. It's unethical, but not illegal.

In most countries, it WOULD be illegal -- but not in the U.S.

[buggywhip maker]

That's amazing. So I go out and buy a bunch of Ansel Adams photos, frame them up, and have a show of MY work. Of course, everyone would know I was nuts, but it would be legal.

After years in the photofinishing business and being concerned about copyright issues, I never knew that one could claim creative rights on someone else's work. Thanks for the fulfilling my continuing education unit requirement. It's a strange world we live in.

[divgradcurl]

Originally Posted by buggywhip maker

That's amazing. So I go out and buy a bunch of Ansel Adams photos, frame them up, and have a show of MY work. Of course, everyone would know I was nuts, but it would be legal.

After years in the photofinishing business and being concerned about copyright issues, I never knew that one could claim creative rights on someone else's work. Thanks for the fulfilling my continuing education unit requirement. It's a strange world we live in.

It is strange. The U.S. is the only country I am aware of that does not recognize the "moral rights" of the artist or author -- that is, the right to always be associated with the work. In fact, in most countries, the "moral rights" of an author or artists can NEVER be transferred or conferred on another, even if the author or artists desires such a result.

That means that plagiarism is technically legal in the U.S. under U.S. copyright law.

[Yamitron]

Wow... there is a lot of confusion here.

The copyright holder for the pictures that you wish to distribute reserves the right to distribute. In order to distribute it legally, you must obtain a distribution liscense from the copyright holder.

If you own a store or something similar, and you have a contract with the copyright holder granting you permission to sell their work, then you can put it in a frame and sell it as their work, but you cannot claim it as your own in any way.

If you wish to sell the entire project as your work, than you must obtain a liscnece from the copyright holder, granting you permission to use their copyrighted work in yours.

If you are sticking a picture in a frame and selling the postcard and the frame together, and you are claiming no copyright, then you still need permission to do so, and a sellers permit.

Although it may be "legal" without permission, if the copyright owner saw that you were doing that, they would be pretty irate, and you could expect legal action in some form. Always assume that you need permission.

[divgradcurl]

The copyright holder for the pictures that you wish to distribute reserves the right to distribute. In order to distribute it legally, you must obtain a distribution liscense from the copyright holder.

But once the copyright holder does exercise their right to distribute -- for example, by selling their postcards to a wholesaler -- they then lose the right to control distribution of those copies of the postcards that they have already sold. Google "first sale doctrine" for more info.

If you own a store or something similar, and you have a contract with the copyright holder granting you permission to sell their work, then you can put it in a frame and sell it as their work, but you cannot claim it as your own in any way.

Stores do not have contracts with copyright holder, express or implied -- they can resell products that they purchase by virtue of the first sale doctrine. Stores are no different from you and I -- if I buy a postcard from a store, I can legally resell that postcard.

What statutory or caselaw authority do you have for the assertion that "you cannot claim it as your own in any way"?

If you wish to sell the entire project as your work, than you must obtain a liscnece from the copyright holder, granting you permission to use their copyrighted work in yours.

Again, look up the "first sale doctrine." I think that you will find that this type of behavior is perfectly lawful, and not subject to the control of the copyright holder once the "first sale" is made.

If you are sticking a picture in a frame and selling the postcard and the frame together, and you are claiming no copyright, then you still need permission to do so, and a sellers permit.

No, you don't need any permission. And what is a "seller's permit?"

You might want to look up Lee v. A.R.T. Company, 125 F.3d 580 (7th Cir. 1997), for example -- that case specifically allows what the OP is considering.

[buggywhip maker]

divgradcurl--

Just for my further enlightenment, if a person brings me a photo, or other visual work, and claims that to be their own, where does that put me regarding reproduction rights? Legally, I'm not to copy and print images that I know belong to someone else, but if someone swears to me the work in question is theirs, then am I not in the clear regarding copyright issues? Ownership and copyright questions are a big deal for the photofinishing industry, and this thread isn't helping me stay clear on the subject. There have been some big lawsuits concerning this problem, and now I no longer think I know the answer.