Can you torrent something if it's no longer available?

[ryan_hunter]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

I would like to rewatch a TV show that I used to like, however it is not available for purchase anywhere, as the studio or whoever owns the rights to it has apparently decided not to produce blu ray discs of it for sale. So there is no way to legally purchase this show.

I did however find it available on a torrent site. Would it be legal for me to download it from here? I have not done it yet, because I keep hearing that torrenting TV shows is illegal.

However I would assume that when someone is sued for copyright infringement, a reasonable punishment would be to pay the company the amount of money that they lost due to your infringement, right? So since they are not selling the show anyway, then even if you were to download it "illegally" they would lose exactly $0. So if nobody is being harmed, is it still illegal?

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

I would like to rewatch a TV show that I used to like, however it is not available for purchase anywhere, as the studio or whoever owns the rights to it has apparently decided not to produce blu ray discs of it for sale. So there is no way to legally purchase this show.

I did however find it available on a torrent site. Would it be legal for me to download it from here? I have not done it yet, because I keep hearing that torrenting TV shows is illegal.

However I would assume that when someone is sued for copyright infringement, a reasonable punishment would be to pay the company the amount of money that they lost due to your infringement, right? So since they are not selling the show anyway, then even if you were to download it "illegally" they would lose exactly $0. So if nobody is being harmed, is it still illegal?

Yes, it's illegal.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

I would like to rewatch a TV show that I used to like, however it is not available for purchase anywhere, as the studio or whoever owns the rights to it has apparently decided not to produce blu ray discs of it for sale. So there is no way to legally purchase this show.

I did however find it available on a torrent site. Would it be legal for me to download it from here? I have not done it yet, because I keep hearing that torrenting TV shows is illegal.

However I would assume that when someone is sued for copyright infringement, a reasonable punishment would be to pay the company the amount of money that they lost due to your infringement, right? So since they are not selling the show anyway, then even if you were to download it "illegally" they would lose exactly $0. So if nobody is being harmed, is it still illegal?

"Reasonable punishment" is from $750 up to $150,000 for each copyright-infringed work if the work is registered, which the TV show undoubtedly is.

All illegal downloads harm the copyright holder.

So, yes and as Zigner has already said, it is illegal to download TV shows that are not yet available for sale. Many of these shows will be licensed in the future and it will be the copyright holder who is entitled to the revenue generated from the copyrighted work.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

I would like to rewatch a TV show that I used to like, however it is not available for purchase anywhere, as the studio or whoever owns the rights to it has apparently decided not to produce blu ray discs of it for sale. So there is no way to legally purchase this show.

I did however find it available on a torrent site. Would it be legal for me to download it from here? I have not done it yet, because I keep hearing that torrenting TV shows is illegal.

However I would assume that when someone is sued for copyright infringement, a reasonable punishment would be to pay the company the amount of money that they lost due to your infringement, right? So since they are not selling the show anyway, then even if you were to download it "illegally" they would lose exactly $0. So if nobody is being harmed, is it still illegal?

Do you remember what network the show was on? Have you checked the network's website to see if it is available there to watch streaming? Many of the networks have a rather substantial number of their old shows/classic shows available to watch streaming...and its generally for free.

 

[quincy]

Do you remember what network the show was on? Have you checked the network's website to see if it is available there to watch streaming? Many of the networks have a rather substantial number of their old shows/classic shows available to watch streaming...and its generally for free.

Most TV networks now license their TV series and TV shows to (generally subscription-based) services. It is a way for these networks to generate revenue from previously-aired shows (especially the older shows) that might otherwise not generate any revenue.

But not all shows have been licensed and they are, therefore, unavailable for viewers to view. To illegally download these unlicensed shows would be a big, and potentially very costly, mistake.

 

[ryan_hunter]

LdiJ - the main show I want to watch was on WB. I believe you can watch it streaming online, but the quality is horrendous on any screen larger than 2 inches so it's basically the same as not being available. It is also about 15 years old so I would assume if they haven't done anything with it by now, they aren't going to.

There is also another show I want to get which is on ABC Family, and it's generally known that ABC Family doesn't release blu ray discs for their shows since the channel is smaller and they don't have the audience. So if there is no way to purchase the show legally, you would still be punished for obtaining it through torrents?

Quincy - so there is a preset range for the punishment amount, and the actual amount lost by the rights holder (like I originally suggested) is irrelevant to the punishment amount? For example, they could lose $10 in revenue, and still sue you for thousands?

 

[justalayman]

ryan_hunter;3326354]LdiJ - the main show I want to watch was on WB. I believe you can watch it streaming online, but the quality is horrendous on any screen larger than 2 inches so it's basically the same as not being available. It is also about 15 years old so I would assume if they haven't done anything with it by now, they aren't going to.

but that is irrelevant. It would be like me coming to your house and taking a car you had parked in the garage for 15 years. Since you aren't using it, why shouldn't I be able to take it and use it?

it's because you own the car just like they own the tv program so unless they want to allow you to see it, you cannot see it legally.

There is also another show I want to get which is on ABC Family, and it's generally known that ABC Family doesn't release blu ray discs for their shows since the channel is smaller and they don't have the audience. So if there is no way to purchase the show legally, you would still be punished for obtaining it through torrents?

ok, let's say you have a car in your garage that I cannot find anywhere else. Would I get to take your car just because I can't find one elsewhere?

again, it belongs to them and they have the right to control it as they choose.

Quincy - so there is a preset range for the punishment amount, and the actual amount lost by the rights holder (like I originally suggested) is irrelevant to the punishment amount? For example, they could lose $10 in revenue, and still sue you for thousands?

yes

 

[quincy]

LdiJ - the main show I want to watch was on WB. I believe you can watch it streaming online, but the quality is horrendous on any screen larger than 2 inches so it's basically the same as not being available. It is also about 15 years old so I would assume if they haven't done anything with it by now, they aren't going to.

There is also another show I want to get which is on ABC Family, and it's generally known that ABC Family doesn't release blu ray discs for their shows since the channel is smaller and they don't have the audience. So if there is no way to purchase the show legally, you would still be punished for obtaining it through torrents?

Quincy - so there is a preset range for the punishment amount, and the actual amount lost by the rights holder (like I originally suggested) is irrelevant to the punishment amount? For example, they could lose $10 in revenue, and still sue you for thousands?

I like the way justalayman has explained it.

US Copyright laws allow for an award of statutory damages - damages pre-set by law - if a copyrighted work is registered prior to infringement (or if the work is registered within 3 months of first publication). Statutory damages that a copyright holder is eligible to collect on their registered work that has been infringed is from $750 to $30,000 per infringed work - or up to $150,000 for especially egregious intentional infringement.

If a copyrighted work is not registered, then the copyright holder is limited to collecting in the way of damages the losses suffered as a result of the infringement and/or the profits realized by the infringer. Because profits and losses can be difficult to figure and to prove, most copyright holders will register their works with the US Copyright Office so they will be eligible, at the very least, for statutory damages.

The fact that a movie that can be legally purchased for $10 could wind up costing an illegal downloader $750 to $150,000 is one good reason to not download copyrighted content illegally. The best reason for not illegally downloading copyrighted material is because it is illegal. No TV show that I can think of is worth the risk of a lawsuit.

There are just too many ways to obtain copyrighted material legally that violating copyright laws does not make much sense.

ABC, as a note, has live-streaming through a subscriber-paid service. Fox offers archived TV shows through service-provider subscriptions. NBC offers some of their old TV shows for view with a cable subscription. CBS has some shows available on their site and through mobile apps. There might be other ways to access old TV shows but generally you will need to subscribe to a service (like Netflix, cable, HBO, whatever) that has licensed from the copyright holders the right to provide the content to viewers.

 

[LdiJ]

LdiJ - the main show I want to watch was on WB. I believe you can watch it streaming online, but the quality is horrendous on any screen larger than 2 inches so it's basically the same as not being available. It is also about 15 years old so I would assume if they haven't done anything with it by now, they aren't going to.

There is also another show I want to get which is on ABC Family, and it's generally known that ABC Family doesn't release blu ray discs for their shows since the channel is smaller and they don't have the audience. So if there is no way to purchase the show legally, you would still be punished for obtaining it through torrents?

Quincy - so there is a preset range for the punishment amount, and the actual amount lost by the rights holder (like I originally suggested) is irrelevant to the punishment amount? For example, they could lose $10 in revenue, and still sue you for thousands?

I watch all of my television streaming on line, and the quality is superb...its as good as any HD TV, if not better. Is your problem perhaps that you do not have broadband cable? Netflix has tons of ABC Family shows...it might very well be there, and tons of shows from the WB as well, so it may be there. Hulu is another option, and so is Amazon Prime.

 

[quincy]

I watch all of my television streaming on line, and the quality is superb...its as good as any HD TV, if not better. Is your problem perhaps that you do not have broadband cable? Netflix has tons of ABC Family shows...it might very well be there, and tons of shows from the WB as well, so it may be there. Hulu is another option, and so is Amazon Prime.

Those are subscription-based services.

There are legal ways to watch old television shows but the shows that are legally available to watch have been made available by the copyright holders through licensing agreements. If they are not available through legal channels, they cannot be downloaded without the risk of a lawsuit.

The copyright holders are pretty vigilant when it comes to monitoring the uses of their copyrighted material.

 

[LdiJ]

Those are subscription-based services.

There are legal ways to watch old television shows but the shows that are legally available to watch have been made available by the copyright holders through licensing agreements. If they are not available through legal channels, they cannot be downloaded without the risk of a lawsuit.

The copyright holders are pretty vigilant when it comes to monitoring the uses of their copyrighted material.

I agree entirely...I was just offering advice of how he might find the show LEGALLY to watch it.

 

[quincy]

I agree entirely...I was just offering advice of how he might find the show LEGALLY to watch it.

Ah. Agreement is nice for a change.

For WB shows, the Warner Brothers site is a good place to start. Here for the benefit of ryan is a link: http://www.warnerbros.com

And here is a link from Computer Hope with some good information on where else to find shows to watch that will not violate the copyright holder's copyrights: http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001146.htm

As Computer Hope wisely notes, downloading any show through bittorrent is almost always going to be illegal.

 

[ryan_hunter]

Thanks for the replies. I've decided not to torrent the show as it sounds like it could potentially be far too much trouble for what it's worth.

So for the most part, one should just avoid from obtaining any TV show or movie from anywhere other than the official source (or a source that everyone knows is legitimate such as Netflix)?

justalayman - I don't really understand your analogy. If someone downloads a TV episode, the rights holder still has the episode. If you steal my car, I no longer have a car. So wouldn't the correct analogy be for you to bring a cloning device into my garage, clone my car, and then "steal" the cloned copy while leaving the original car in the garage? If this were the case, you could go right ahead, I wouldn't mind
(that being said, I do understand that my personal opinion doesn't affect the legality of the situation; I only ask this because I would like to better understand why the law is what it is)

 

[quincy]

Thanks for the replies. I've decided not to torrent the show as it sounds like it could potentially be far too much trouble for what it's worth.

So for the most part, one should just avoid from obtaining any TV show or movie from anywhere other than the official source (or a source that everyone knows is legitimate such as Netflix)?

Yes. What to take away from what has been offered to you here is that you should avoid bittorrent and any site that has not been authorized by the copyright holder to show the copyrighted material.

To do otherwise can result in you getting a cease and desist letter, a settlement letter demanding $XXXX in compensation, and (potentially) a lawsuit filed against you, where damages awarded the copyright holder can be high ($XX,XXX).

justalayman's analogy, by the way, was not perfect, but it pointed out nicely that copyright infringement is the theft of someone else's property (and it amuses me). If your car was rights-protected, cloning it would also work as an analogy, as it would focus on the copying aspect of copyright law. But your analogy is not perfect either.

You were smart to check on the legality of the torrent download before downloading.

 

[STEPHAN]

For example, they could lose $10 in revenue, and still sue you for thousands?

If you torrent something, you are not only downloading, you are distributing to others. This is where they get you and what they charge you for.