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Copyright VS Terms of service

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john39

Member
I should never post when I am in a hurry or doing other things because I often return to find errors in what I wrote and, before I have a chance to edit them out, those errors have been quoted by others. :eek:

First, john, I changed the post part that you quoted but I apparently did not change it in time to prevent your immortalizing my error in your post.

I left out the "exclusive" before the "rights." Rights in a copyrighted work ARE given to a licensee when a copyright owner grants a nonexclusive or limited license - but these rights are limited to what is specifically granted by the copyright owner and the licensee is not allowed to exceed the specific rights granted.
So something has to be specifically granted?

If nothing is specified,when clicking on that TOS,then were any rights transferred anyway?

In our example the TOS was ....you post we own it......Nothing other than that,was specifically noted.

What rights were transferred?

Interesting

and,I ll wait when you come back.
 
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xPreatorianx

Junior Member
So something has to be specifically granted?

If nothing is specified,when clicking on that TOS,then were any rights transferred anyway?

In our example the TOS was ....you post we own it......Nothing other than that,was specifically noted.

What rights were transferred?

Interesting

and,I ll wait when you come back.
I also included the full TOS in a previous reply on page 3. So everyone can see the "big picture."
 

quincy

Senior Member
I think some confusion may be coming from my use of the word "transfer?"

Transfer applies ONLY to the copyright owner's granting of EXCLUSIVE rights in a work, and transfers can be time-limited, limited to a particular area, limited to a particular use. But in that time, that area or with that type of use, the one to whom these rights are transferred own those rights, is essentially the copyright owner of those particular rights, and can sue anyone who infringes on those particular rights. But, unless ALL of the rights are transferred to another, the original copyright owner remains the copyright owner of the work itself.

Rights are not transferred through a nonexclusive or limited license. Instead, limited rights to use the work in a specific manner are granted by the copyright owner to the licensee. The copyright owner is not transferring any of his ownership in the work to someone else. The licensee who is granted a nonexclusive license does not have any exclusive rights in the work.

And, since this thread is long and I am tired, what exactly needs addressing or explaining now?
 

john39

Member
I think some confusion may be coming from my use of the word "transfer?"

Transfer applies ONLY to the copyright owner's granting of EXCLUSIVE rights in a work, and transfers can be time-limited, limited to a particular area, limited to a particular use. But in that time, that area or with that type of use, the one to whom these rights are transferred own those rights, is essentially the copyright owner of those particular rights, and can sue anyone who infringes on those particular rights. But, unless ALL of the rights are transferred to another, the original copyright owner remains the copyright owner of the work itself.

Rights are not transferred through a nonexclusive or limited license. Instead, limited rights to use the work in a specific manner are granted by the copyright owner to the licensee. The copyright owner is not transferring any of his ownership in the work to someone else. The licensee who is granted a nonexclusive license does not have any exclusive rights in the work.

And, since this thread is long and I am tired, what exactly needs addressing or explaining now?
Rights are not transferred through a nonexclusive or limited license. Instead, limited rights to use the work in a specific manner are granted by the copyright owner to the licensee.
no rights are transferred.

web site can use the post the poster posted.

clicking on the " by this you agree all you post we own " is not transferring rights on copyright.All they own is the post,it is theirs,and they can use it as they please.

They can not redistribute any copyrights.The original poster retained them.

The end

rights of use and copyrights is not the same.Not at all.....we have right of use on copyrights all the time (think fair use...) we don't have any copyrights on it though...

So when I said

the only rights the site have is right of ownership on the post.,you gave me Latin quote about "understanding " the Law :)

Did I understand the law?
 
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john39

Member
If you say I didn't I give up and I am not posting on this issue here :)
if you say I did I also give up and I am not posting on this issue here :)

If you wanna answer JLM about electronic signature question that would be cool because he has valid question...the electronic signature act, - whether an electronic signature constitutes signature for purposes in respect to transfer copyrights...if no,why not?

I cant answer why not.He got me (and you )cornered
 
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quincy

Senior Member
Actually, john, until the terms of service or conditions of use of a website are known, it is impossible to say what rights in a copyrighted work, if any, have been given to the website. But, as far as following and understanding what has been posted in this thread so far, you are doing a far better job of it than I. :)

So, on to electronic signatures, huh?

Under the copyright law, the granting by a copyright owner to another of nonexclusive rights in the copyrighted work (which, again, is not a transfer of rights) does not require the signature of the copyright holder. Permission from the copyright owner to use the copyrighted work does not even have to be in writing (although most of these limited licenses to use copyrighted works will be in writing and signed, for the protection of all parties).

The copyright law DOES require that any transfer of rights in a copyrighted work be in writing and signed by the copyright holder. This requirement covers transfers of all rights to a work (where there is a total change in ownership) or for transfers of any of one or more of the exclusive rights in the work (where the original copyright owner retains ownership in the work itself).

And, in order to record a transfer of these rights (all rights or exclusive rights), the actual HANDWRITTEN signature of the copyright owner on a written transfer document is required (or a photocopy of the original hand-signed document that has been officially certified).

See http://www.copyright.gov/compendium/1600.htm and http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ12.pdf for more details on the recording of a transfer.

Transfers do not have to be recorded to be valid. But, if a dispute arises between the copyright owner and the person to whom rights have been transferred, over what rights were transferred by the copyright owner, having the transfer recorded will provide evidence of exactly what rights were transferred and their scope. For this reason, most transfers ARE recorded with the Copyright Office.

As to whether the Electronic Signature Act allows for the transferring of ownership of a copyright or not, there are some documents that must have handwritten signatures to be valid (ie, wills), but copyright transfers are not among the ones specifically listed. If a copyright owner and the person to whom the copyrights are being transferred agree to transferring rights with an electronic signature, therefore, it could (potentially) be valid and enforceable.

If this electronically signed transfer is later challenged in court by the original copyright owner, and the transfer has not been recorded in the Copyright Office (with the required handwritten signature of the copyright owner), the answer as to whether the transfer, the transfer agreement, and the agreement made with an electronic signature is valid and enforceable could be for a court to decide.

How a court will decide the matter will depend, as does everything in law, on the specific facts.

xPreatorianx, I have not yet looked at the TOS that prompted you to post but will try to later so I can better understand your concerns. You will still want a review by, and the opinion of, an attorney in your area, however, on the validity and enforceability of the website's TOS.
 
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