• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Dead Trademark Question

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

tchudy

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Illinois.

While researching trademark names for a new product, I found one company with a dead trademark name that has two of the same words in it that I want to use in my three-word product name. Here is a made up example of the dead trademark name; “Big Hats”. I want to trademark the phrase “Extreme Big Hats”. They are both in the same class. Since “Big Hats”, in my example is dead, can I trademark my three phrase name? The dead name is not being used in commerce as far as I can tell.
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
Dead at the USPTO only means they've not renewed the registration. They may still be using it in commerce. You'll need to figure that out. If not, you can certainly use your mark in commerce and perhaps even get registration for it.
 

quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Illinois.

While researching trademark names for a new product, I found one company with a dead trademark name that has two of the same words in it that I want to use in my three-word product name. Here is a made up example of the dead trademark name; �Big Hats�. I want to trademark the phrase �Extreme Big Hats�. They are both in the same class. Since �Big Hats�, in my example is dead, can I trademark my three phrase name? The dead name is not being used in commerce as far as I can tell.
A trademark is often presumed abandoned when it has not been used in commerce for a continuous period of three years or more. But because registration of a mark is not required in the US for trademark protection, the fact that the USPTO shows a mark as "dead" does not mean the mark is not in use or will not be revived by the previous registrant.

In other words, being listed as "dead" with the USPTO can mean little when it comes to the actual status of a mark.

That said, if after investigating the marketplace for any business product or service using the same or similar name as an identifier for the same or similar business product or service as yours, you can use the mark as an identifier and you can register the mark either with your state or federally, or both. The previous registrant/owner of the mark could file an objection if s/he has continued use of the mark or plans to continue its use in the future. Legitimate objections to your registration of the mark can include but are not limited to an interruption in use by the previous registrant due to financial difficulties (perhaps a bankruptcy) or product modifications.
 

tchudy

Junior Member
Adjective Use

A trademark is often presumed abandoned when it has not been used in commerce for a continuous period of three years or more. But because registration of a mark is not required in the US for trademark protection, the fact that the USPTO shows a mark as "dead" does not mean the mark is not in use or will not be revived by the previous registrant.

In other words, being listed as "dead" with the USPTO can mean little when it comes to the actual status of a mark.

That said, if after investigating the marketplace for any business product or service using the same or similar name as an identifier for the same or similar business product or service as yours, you can use the mark as an identifier and you can register the mark either with your state or federally, or both. The previous registrant/owner of the mark could file an objection if s/he has continued use of the mark or plans to continue its use in the future. Legitimate objections to your registration of the mark can include but are not limited to an interruption in use by the previous registrant due to financial difficulties (perhaps a bankruptcy) or product modifications.
Thanks for your response. I don't want to use the exact same trademark as the "dead" one I have referenced. I want to use the same phrase but with an adjective. My example was "Big Hats". I want to use the phrase "Extreme Big Hats". Both phrases would be for a similar class item. Would this method (of adding an adjective) be acceptable to trademark?
 

quincy

Senior Member
Thanks for your response. I don't want to use the exact same trademark as the "dead" one I have referenced. I want to use the same phrase but with an adjective. My example was "Big Hats". I want to use the phrase "Extreme Big Hats". Both phrases would be for a similar class item. Would this method (of adding an adjective) be acceptable to trademark?
Adding an adjective is not going to help you avoid a trademark infringement action. Here is an example: I make a soft drink and decide to name it "Super Pepsi." Pepsi is going to notice, object, and I could be sued.

You need to find out if the "dead" trademark is, in fact, dead. If there are still "Big Hats" on the market, then you run into legal problems. Think of the trademark "Edsel." It continues to be a protected mark, even though Edsels are no longer being made.

You can sit down with a trademark attorney to go over the legal risks of your name choice, or you can come up with a name that is uniquely your own to describe your product (which is the smartest option).

Good luck.
 

jrob911

Junior Member
Yes, you may trademark Extreme Big Hats. If according to your research the trademark is dead for "Big Hats", that is considered an abandonment of trademark rights and thus if you file for registration you can properly stake your claim for "Extreme Big Hats". Also, the addition of the word "Extreme" arguably creates a clear distinction between your brand and Big Hats. The ultimate test is whether or not your mark would create a "likelihood of confusion" in the marketplace. Meaning, would a reasonable consumer mistakenly confuse "Extreme Big Hats" with "Big Hats". Arguments could be made by both sides, however since the federal mark for "Big Hats" is dead according to your research, you should be OK. There may be some cause for concern regarding Big Hats common law trademark rights which you should look into.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Yes, you may trademark Extreme Big Hats. If according to your research the trademark is dead for "Big Hats", that is considered an abandonment of trademark rights and thus if you file for registration you can properly stake your claim for "Extreme Big Hats". Also, the addition of the word "Extreme" arguably creates a clear distinction between your brand and Big Hats. The ultimate test is whether or not your mark would create a "likelihood of confusion" in the marketplace. Meaning, would a reasonable consumer mistakenly confuse "Extreme Big Hats" with "Big Hats". Arguments could be made by both sides, however since the federal mark for "Big Hats" is dead according to your research, you should be OK. There may be some cause for concern regarding Big Hats common law trademark rights which you should look into.
Interesting. I read your profile, jrob911, and, yet, I am still going to disagree with what you wrote. I guess I expected a different response from you. :)

First, one does not "trademark" a name. A name becomes a trademark when it is used to identify a product or service.

Second, even when the USPTO shows as "dead" a trademark, this does not mean that the previous holder of the mark does not still have rights to the mark and cannot object to the registration. There are many reasons why a mark may be unused for a period of time. I DO agree with you that, if the mark is shown as dead, it is possible to file for registration of the name and see what happens.

Third, I would be interested in hearing what argument you would make against the likelihood of confusion when two trademarks identify the same products or services in the same class, and all that has been done to one trademark is to add an adjective to the other. I see, in other words, no "clear distinction" between the two.
 

jrob911

Junior Member
Hello Quincy, thanks for your feedback on my post.

First, I'm not sure quite what you mean by "one does not 'trademark' a name." An applicant can certainly trademark a name, an image, a sound, or even a color to identify a source of a product/service. The applicant must be using the mark in commerce, or possess a bona fine good faith intent to use the mark in the immediate future, at the time of trademark registration.

Perhaps you mean that a trademark acquires common law rights determined by each state when used in a particular geographical region, but an individual or entity must file a trademark application with the USPTO in order to obtain federal TM rights, and an application to register a standard character trademark name may be submitted prior to actual use.

Second, if a USPTO application/registration shows a status of dead or abandoned, it means that specific application or registration is no longer under prosecution or pending within the USPTO, and would not be cited by a trademark examiner against the applicant. You are correct that the mark may be revived by the owner, but the revival must be done so in a timely manner after going abandoned and for a reasonable cause. So, if "Big Hats" in it's current status is all that is uncovered by searching TESS, it should likely not be an obstacle, especially if it has gone abandoned some time ago.

Third, preparing an OA to combat a likelihood of confusion argument would certainly be arduous, but not insurmountable. "The degree of distinctiveness – or, on the other hand, descriptiveness – of a designation can be determined only by considering it in relation to the specific goods or services." Remington Products, Inc. v. N. Am. Philips Corp., 892 F.2d 1576, 1580, 13 USPQ2d 1444, 1448 (Fed. Cir. 1990) (the mark must be considered in context, i.e., in connection with the goods). As stated in H. Marvin Ginn Corp. v. Int'l Ass'n of Fire Chiefs, Inc., 782 F.2d 987, 989, 228 USPQ 528, 530 (Fed. Cir. 1986), quoting Weiss Noodle Co. v. Golden Cracknel & Specialty Co., 290 F.2d 845, 847, 129 USPQ 411, 413 (C.C.P.A. 1961), “[t]he name of a thing is in fact the ultimate in descriptiveness.”

The question would be whether or not the addition of "Extreme" followed by the generic words "Big" and "Hats" constitutes a significant enough degree of distinctiveness from Big Hats. If the applicant was trying to trademark "Extreme Google" or "Extreme N.i.k.e", whereby the static term is not a known word in the English language, than the applicant's mark would be rejected because of the obvious piggybacking on Google's uniquely concocted name used for representing their brand. There would be a very high probability of confusing Extreme Google with Google if encountered by your average web surfer. However, I would argue here that because the term 'Big Hats' comprises generic words that there are so few alternatives to differentiate brands of big hat providers, and that adding "Extreme" makes this particular mark appropriately distinct considering it in relation to the specific goods of hats. This would require a fair amount of research into case law to find specific examples to support the client's side.
 
Last edited:

quincy

Senior Member
Hello Quincy, thanks for your feedback on my post.
You're welcome, jrob. I am always ready and willing to give feedback. :)

First, I'm not sure quite what you mean by "one does not 'trademark' a name." An applicant can certainly trademark a name, an image, a sound, or even a color to identify a source of a product/service. The applicant must be using the mark in commerce, or possess a bona fine good faith intent to use the mark in the immediate future, at the time of trademark registration.
Trademark law 101: The word "trademark" is a noun, not a verb.

An applicant can choose a word (or a slogan or a logo) to act as an identifier for his/her product or service, and this becomes the applicant's trademark. The applicant can register this trademark. The applicant, however, does not trademark a word (or slogan or logo).

Perhaps you mean that a trademark acquires common law rights determined by each state when used in a particular geographical region, but an individual or entity must file a trademark application with the USPTO in order to obtain federal TM rights, and an application to register a standard character trademark name may be submitted prior to actual use.
No, that is not what I meant. An "Intent to Use" application can be filed with the USPTO prior to actual use of the mark but, until the trademark is used in commerce, the mark is not registered. It reserves the mark for a period of time until put in use. The registration of the mark will happen when the mark is used in commerce.

Second, if a USPTO application/registration shows a status of dead or abandoned, it means that specific application or registration is no longer under prosecution or pending within the USPTO, and would not be cited by a trademark examiner against the applicant. You are correct that the mark may be revived by the owner, but the revival must be done so in a timely manner after going abandoned and for a reasonable cause. So, if "Big Hats" in it's current status is all that is uncovered by searching TESS, it should likely not be an obstacle, especially if it has gone abandoned some time ago.
The original owner of a mark that is no longer a federally registered "live" mark can prevent someone else from using the mark and they can do this in several different ways. One way is to challenge the registration of the mark. Another way is to convince a court that the mark was never abandoned.

In addition, TESS is not the only search that needs to be conducted, because trademarks do not need to be federally registered to be offered trademark protection.

Third, preparing an OA to combat a likelihood of confusion argument would certainly be arduous, but not insurmountable. "The degree of distinctiveness � or, on the other hand, descriptiveness � of a designation can be determined only by considering it in relation to the specific goods or services." Remington Products, Inc. v. N. Am. Philips Corp., 892 F.2d 1576, 1580, 13 USPQ2d 1444, 1448 (Fed. Cir. 1990) (the mark must be considered in context, i.e., in connection with the goods). As stated in H. Marvin Ginn Corp. v. Int'l Ass'n of Fire Chiefs, Inc., 782 F.2d 987, 989, 228 USPQ 528, 530 (Fed. Cir. 1986), quoting Weiss Noodle Co. v. Golden Cracknel & Specialty Co., 290 F.2d 845, 847, 129 USPQ 411, 413 (C.C.P.A. 1961), �[t]he name of a thing is in fact the ultimate in descriptiveness.�

The question would be whether or not the addition of "Extreme" followed by the generic words "Big" and "Hats" constitutes a significant enough degree of distinctiveness from Big Hats. If the applicant was trying to trademark "Extreme Google" or "Extreme N.i.k.e", whereby the static term is not a known word in the English language, than the applicant's mark would be rejected because of the obvious piggybacking on Google's uniquely concocted name used for representing their brand. There would be a very high probability of confusing Extreme Google with Google if encountered by your average web surfer. However, I would argue here that because the term 'Big Hats' comprises generic words that there are so few alternatives to differentiate brands of big hat providers, and that adding "Extreme" makes this particular mark appropriately distinct considering it in relation to the specific goods of hats. This would require a fair amount of research into case law to find specific examples to support the client's side.
"Big Hats" is a name provided by tchudy to illustrate the questions he has asked. These are not the real names he has chosen. So, to say, "Yes, you may trademark Extreme Big Hats" is not only a grammatically incorrect statement (;)), it could also be considered a bit of a reckless one. We do not have nearly enough facts to make any definitive statement like that.

But I DO agree with you that it requires a fair amount of research to know if the REAL name chosen by tchudy will be one that can be used with little legal risk.

The research you did mentions "distinctiveness" in the context of the products or services being offered. If both trademarks are identifying the SAME class of goods or services (as is, apparently, tchudy's intent), an adjective added to one is unlikely to pass any distinctiveness test.

Because both Google and N.I.K.E. are famous marks, even if someone came along and tried to use these trademarks (with an adjective added or not on a different product or service or not) distinctiveness won't cut it. Facts matter.

It is recommended that tchudy consult with an IP attorney in his area for a personal review of the specific name he is considering using to identify his product or service. It is important for ALL posters to this site to know that what is offered on this forum is not a substitute for the advice offered by a licensed attorney in their area, after that attorney has reviewed all facts.

Welcome to the forum, jrob. Are you a recent graduate?
 
Last edited:

single317dad

Senior Member
To further the point, the case of River West Brands (the trademark equivalent of a patent troll, IMO) and CKE Restaurants (Hardee's, Carl's Jr., and purchasers of long-ago locally famous chain Burger Chef) is of interest.

To summarize, River West does market research on "dead" brands and brings them back to life, with two apparent goals: either bringing said brand back to market, or suing anyone else who tries. When Hardee's attempted to revive their (legally purchased, mind you) Burger Chef trademark - specifically the Big Chef burger - the fight was on.

Take quincy's advice and consult with a qualified IP attorney; issues like these are no place for laymen like us.
 

quincy

Senior Member
To further the point, the case of River West Brands (the trademark equivalent of a patent troll, IMO) and CKE Restaurants (Hardee's, Carl's Jr., and purchasers of long-ago locally famous chain Burger Chef) is of interest.

To summarize, River West does market research on "dead" brands and brings them back to life, with two apparent goals: either bringing said brand back to market, or suing anyone else who tries. When Hardee's attempted to revive their (legally purchased, mind you) Burger Chef trademark - specifically the Big Chef burger - the fight was on.

Take quincy's advice and consult with a qualified IP attorney; issues like these are no place for laymen like us.
This forum is a great resource (generally) when it comes to providing accurate legal information and when providing links to reliable sources and when pointing posters to resources in their area of the country.

And there are many extremely bright members on this forum who can take the facts that are presented by a poster and offer legitimate advice based on those facts.

But we are presented with a few facts and a few paragraphs only.

I know many posters to this site are upset when the response to their legal concern is "see an attorney in your area," but when posters want the specifics and particulars of their legal concerns addressed, a personal review by an attorney is necessary.
 

LucasChalmers

Junior Member
Dead trademark does not always mean that it is easy to claim, maybe someone else is using it. Even if there is a lapsed in the trademark registration, for as long as the third party is using it, a cretain business maybe prevented from using it. In order to determined whether a trademark is still in use or not, you have to perform a background check. Try searching the USPTO's Trademark Electronic Search System, search on the Internet or in the business listings and in state trademark databases to know if the trademark is in use.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Dead trademark does not always mean that it is easy to claim, maybe someone else is using it. Even if there is a lapsed in the trademark registration, for as long as the third party is using it, a cretain business maybe prevented from using it. In order to determined whether a trademark is still in use or not, you have to perform a background check. Try searching the USPTO's Trademark Electronic Search System, search on the Internet or in the business listings and in state trademark databases to know if the trademark is in use.
Aw, geez, Lucas.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top