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Falsely accused of trademark infringement?

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ebaysucks

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MA

Is this a growing trend? By that I mean corporate lawyers(Fox in this case)are just swinging madly in the dark not worried about any sort of consequence?

The other day a Fox attorney sent me a rather nasty letter claiming I was in violation of trademark infringement of one of their shows. She accused me of selling a "knockoff" or unlicensed product. I immediately questioned the manufacturer and he told me his product was fully licensed like I thought. I called her up and she acted like it was nothing. She said she was human. I think she was a robot and a quick search of her name revealed she is notorious for sending these letters out.

One law firm said something trademark infringement cases only result in 51% victory. Remind me not to make them secretary of war when I'm elected president ;-).

I was selling a fully licensed product but was ordered by her to destroy all the merchandise and cease and desist. Totally a form letter. She also contacted me via an email address that's not published on my website. I thought that was strange for a start. Since I had the items on Ebay I was naturally worried VERO would attack me who is also notorious for shutting down accounts by simply complying with the intellectual property right's wishes. I understand how that works but if they're going around making false claims that's not only unfair but it can hurt one's business and market position. I personally think VERO is a joke as I've had to deal with them before and while they'll bend over backwards for corporations they make small companies play a game of oubliette hopscotch. Really it was overly complicated and didn't work(process).

The funny thing is she only targeted one product when I was selling several Fox products. Oh the other thing she claimed is I didn't label it a Fox licensed product so she didn't know. I kind of think the IP attorney for Fox should know which products they licensed because I was using the manufacturer's stock photos which they would have used to obtain the license in the 1st place. I never post the license holder's name and never see anyone else. I often times say something like officially licensed or something just to distinguish between the knockoff market. Also it's pretty obvious as the knockoffs generally are photographed poorly. I find that to be universally the case for this sort of product. They're shy about showing too much detail I think. It's not terribly hard to create a white infinity background. Still ***** she only cited one instance. My initial reaction(in my mind)was suspicion. I wondered if it was a stunt to cull the marketplace. I trust em as far as I can throw em. I'm also well aware of the early bird gets the worm and I was that bird. That can upset some people. Why someone such as a competitor could have contacted Fox and reported me. Might sound paranoid but all is fair in love, war and business. You'd be surprised at the stunts that are pulled.

The stunt she pulled can be quite destructive as I mentioned. Should the California bar know about this? Is that the proper place to contact? Really had she really been on a witch hunt I wouldn't have an Ebay store right now. She only cited my website. A big company like Fox would already have active agreements with Ebay and the action would have been swift. Why it still could come if she's that cavalier. I tried to pre-empt the attack by contacting VERO and they said Fox is part of their program but they would have to prove to them they owned the trademark. I was like duhhhhhh, like that would be hard she's their IP attorney and would just fax the appropriate document. Why I think the documents would already be on file at VERO. I'm not the only one who could be hurt by this and based upon how her name comes up others have been falsely accused. So CA bar?
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
Frankly, "accusing" someone of infringement is not actionable. Further, you have zero chance of actually doing something to the attorneys. If they actually proactively interfered with your legitimate business (like they filed vero complaints against you), you MIGHT have a claim against the company who hired the attorney. However, absent seeing your marketing it's hard to say if they were right or not. Just because you are selling licensed goods doesn't mean you can willy nilly use the trademarks.

Since you seem to be an Ebay person, I recommend you check the following site. It's got a lot of good information for you there.

http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.shtml
 

ebaysucks

Member
Frankly, "accusing" someone of infringement is not actionable. Further, you have zero chance of actually doing something to the attorneys. If they actually proactively interfered with your legitimate business (like they filed vero complaints against you), you MIGHT have a claim against the company who hired the attorney. However, absent seeing your marketing it's hard to say if they were right or not. Just because you are selling licensed goods doesn't mean you can willy nilly use the trademarks.

Since you seem to be an Ebay person, I recommend you check the following site. It's got a lot of good information for you there.

http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.shtml
I actually didn't mean to imply I would be suing her or Fox but that someone should tell her to knock it off. I was actually way too nice in my approach, more of a puzzled expression. I could have easily baited her. I don't know what good it would have done if falsely accusing someone in a very formal manner as a licensed attorney is more willy nilly than I lead on to be. One thing I left out I thought her approach was ridiculous from the start. Had it been legitimate and comprehensive why would she bother with me directly when she could have went directly to my host? I'm really not a trusting person and wouldn't put anything past another to be playing some sort of a game. I sell lots of licensed merchandise and don't get attacked. As much as I think and know Ebay sucks Etsy is right on par. Funny I got banned in the spring for raising trademark issues on their website. Their shareholders are now suing them. SEC turned a blind eye(along with the shareholders). Kind of a cutthroat business. Certainly there has to be some ethical concerns? I'm really surprised as I said it wasn't more comprehensive. It almost seems to me as if she wasn't really concerned and just taking shots in the dark and going on to the next victim. Market position can be highly competitive and manufacturers and larger companies often try to use devious means to limit interference(competition). I could probably write a book on it. I've seen so many low down dirty tricks in a very short span of time nothing would surprise me. I wasn't intimidated by her or her threat because I knew I was doing nothing wrong. Previous to this the manufacturer announced on their Facebook page trademark owners were going on a clean up spree. The item I was flagged for is an item being duplicated on Ebay. I recognize or remember some of the brands on that website who pretty much claim they own the world. The whole idea behind licensed products is to use the trademark. It would serve me no good to omit it. I still have a company out there who thinks I forgot they violated my copyright and they routinely attack my Youtube channel and start other trouble with me. If they made a single complaint it might account for her lack of diligence. In other words someone else directed her to my website not that she found me or thought it was very important.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
OK, you don't want information, you just want to rant. EBAY has forums for ranting. This forum is for those who want legal help.

You appear to have no claim other than your panties are in a wad over the impropriety you allege from some attorney who appears, while possibly mistaken, has done nothing outside of the normal standards of practice.

The fact that other people violated your copyright gives you no "high road" in your infringing on others.
 

ebaysucks

Member
OK, you don't want information, you just want to rant. EBAY has forums for ranting. This forum is for those who want legal help.

You appear to have no claim other than your panties are in a wad over the impropriety you allege from some attorney who appears, while possibly mistaken, has done nothing outside of the normal standards of practice.

The fact that other people violated your copyright gives you no "high road" in your infringing on others.
Are you in fact an attorney yourself if you are you're as unethical as she. Also libelous to boot.
 

single317dad

Senior Member
Are you in fact an attorney yourself if you are you're as unethical as she. Also libelous to boot.
This stuff happens all the time. I've gotten dozens of these copyright claims over the years on my selling accounts. I've ranted. I've raved. The only person who listened was me, as my own voice echoed off the walls.

If you want anything done, try to organize a class action over all the item listing and upgrade fees we've lost when these items are wrongfully removed by ebay at the behest of lying "rights holders". Otherwise, find a group of buddies to have a few beers with and rant away.

The last thing you should do is attack a respected member of this forum. That won't make you any friends at all.
 

quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MA

Is this a growing trend? By that I mean corporate lawyers(Fox in this case)are just swinging madly in the dark not worried about any sort of consequence?

The other day a Fox attorney sent me a rather nasty letter claiming I was in violation of trademark infringement of one of their shows. She accused me of selling a "knockoff" or unlicensed product. I immediately questioned the manufacturer and he told me his product was fully licensed like I thought. I called her up and she acted like it was nothing. She said she was human. I think she was a robot and a quick search of her name revealed she is notorious for sending these letters out. ...

... I was selling a fully licensed product but was ordered by her to destroy all the merchandise and cease and desist. Totally a form letter. ...

... Should the California bar know about this? Is that the proper place to contact? ...
Many companies actively police the marketplace for trademark infringers. It is up to trademark holders to enforce their own rights in their trademarks. No one does this for them.

By allowing others to use their marks without permission (with permission generally granted in the form of a license), trademark holders risk losing their rights in the mark. The mark stops being a distinctive identifier for their company's goods and services when others also freely use it to identify other goods or services.

For that reason, when unauthorized uses of trademarks are found, the owners of the marks pursue the infringers. They generally do this by first sending out cease and desist letters. Cease and desist letters sent to infringers tend to be the cheapest action for a trademark holder to take and a cease and desist letter from an attorney who is representing the trademark holder can often be an effective and fast way to stop the infringement. Letters threatening lawsuits can intimidate the recipient into ceasing and desisting.

Unfortunately, as you discovered, sometimes trademark holders get it wrong. They target an individual who has a legal right to use the mark, or who is legally selling the goods they are selling, or at times, trademark holders may even claim infringement on a mark they do not own at all. The latter is what happened in Louisiana in 2010 when the NFL tried to assert trademark rights in a slogan they did not own.

The New Orleans Saints' trip to the Super Bowl spawned the marketing of tee-shirts by several small stores. These tee-shirt makers capitalized on the popular chant by fans at Saints' games: "Who Dat say dey gonna beat da Saints?" (or "Who Dat?"). The NFL was quick to send out cease and desist letters to these tee-shirt makers, claiming the stores were infringing on the New Orleans Saints slogan, an owned trademark.

The letters received by these tee-shirt makers were similar to what you received from Fox.

The problem with the NFL letters is that NFL did not own any rights to "Who Dat?" The tee-shirt makers and store owners complained about the NFL's threats to sue, and Louisiana's Governor asked the Louisiana's Attorney General to look into the matter. The NFL backed off their erroneous trademark infringement claims once the AG got involved (and after they discovered they did not hold any rights to the slogan).

If it appears to you that the cease and desist letter from Fox was as mistakenly sent to you as the cease and desist letters from the NFL were mistakenly sent to the tee-shirt makers in Louisiana, and if you cannot resolve the matter with Fox directly, filing a complaint with your state's Attorney General may help with a solution.

Good luck.
 

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