Recipe - Copyright Issue

[Cosmos75]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? OKLAHOMA.

I in creating a website with a forum for people to post recipe but am afriad about copyright infringement.

Here's some links to what I found;

1) [url]http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html#recipe[/url]
2) [url]http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html[/url]

Both those links have the folowing language

However, where a recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in the form of an explanation or directions, or when there is a collection of recipes as in a cookbook, there may be a basis for copyright protection.

Most of the cookbooks I have seen have that standard copyright notice, e.g. (C) 2004, a few have "Text copyrighted". What if someone posts a recipe with the exact ingredients but with their own explanation of how to cook the dish, i.e. not copy of the text in a cookbook/magazine?

Some advice that I have gotten from another forum is

"If you edit or moderate the submissions you become responsible for the content, otherwise the responsibility remains with the poster."

Is that true?

If so, is that true even if I put a disclaimer on the site saying that I am only responsible for the framework of the site and do not claim authorship, ownership or copyright for any third-party posted content and that I will aid, within my possibilites, the rightful and proven copyright owner to contact anyone infringing by supplying all the information I have?

My idea is to have a forum based submission (like this website) so moderation of the forum board is something I intend to do.

Here's what I have seen on other recipe sites
- [url]http://www.grassrootsrecipes.com/copyright.html[/url]
- [url]http://allrecipes.com/legal.asp?lnkid=158[/url]

But since people could be posting for all over the world, what copyright laws would apply?

- The laws that I am subject to as the webmaster residing in Oklahoma?
- The laws that are subject for the location of the server hosting my site?
- The laws that are subject for the location of person who posted the recipe?

[divgradcurl]

Some advice that I have gotten from another forum is
Quote:
"If you edit or moderate the submissions you become responsible for the content, otherwise the responsibility remains with the poster."

Is that true?

No. You could be liable in one of two ways. First, the general rule is that posting to a bulletin board on the web is creating a "collective work," the copyright of which is vested in the BB owner. So, if someone posted copyrighted work to your board, you would become directly liable as the website owner. Second, even if the BB was set up so that no "collective work" was created (and I don't know how exactly you would do that, so don't ask), you could still be liable for contributory or vicarious infringement for providing a forum for infringing activities to take place.

If so, is that true even if I put a disclaimer on the site saying that I am only responsible for the framework of the site and do not claim authorship, ownership or copyright for any third-party posted content and that I will aid, within my possibilites, the rightful and proven copyright owner to contact anyone infringing by supplying all the information I have?

A disclaimer will not protect you from copyright infringement. Such a disclaimer might make a copyright owner want to work with you rather than sue you, but it will provide no legal protection.

Most of the cookbooks I have seen have that standard copyright notice, e.g. (C) 2004, a few have "Text copyrighted". What if someone posts a recipe with the exact ingredients but with their own explanation of how to cook the dish, i.e. not copy of the text in a cookbook/magazine?

Recipes cannot be copyrighted. Only the "creative" parts of a cookbook can be copyrighted. If the "instructions" for making the dish are written in one's own words, there is no copyright infringement. However, if "one's own words" turn out to be identical to Betty Crocker's words, it might be difficult to prove in court that you came up with the language on your own...

But since people could be posting for all over the world, what copyright laws would apply?

This is a very complex and fact-specific question. The basics are these:

-- if the copyright owner suing you is a U.S. citizen, you will most likely need to be sued in federal court in the district in which you live. Copyright law is federal law, so this will generally go to federal court as a "federal question."

-- if the copyright owner is a non-U.S. citizen, they have two choices. First, they can sue you in their home country (if their laws allow it), but, since they won't have jurisdiction over you (and a U.S. court is highly unlikely to "domesticate" a foreign judgement), that will have little effect. Second, however, if the foregin party is really serious, they can come to the U.S. and sue you in federal court in your local district, and may sue under U.S. copyright law.

Just make sure that people aren't posting recipes verbatim from other sources, and you should be fine. Doesn't mean you won't get hassled, but at least the law will be on your side.

[Cosmos75]

divgradcurl,

Thank you for your reply! I apologize for not replying sooner!

I had initially read the responses to and to the people who posted to [url=http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=193986]this thread[/url] and thought that my idea for a recipe website could be done worry-free. For the posters to that thread I apologize for "hijacking" that thread!!


However, based on your response,
1) I assume legal responsibility for anyone who posts a recipe from a cookbook with instruction that are copied verbatim.
2) But if someone copies ingredients but puts the instructions in their own words, I am fine.

Number 1 makes me think that it would be impossible for me to make sure that no one was posting recipies gathered from books. I wonder how [url]http://allrecipes.com/[/url] does it!?

My thanks to you for taking time to respond.

[divgradcurl]

I wonder how [url]http://allrecipes.com/[/url] does it!?

I don't know how "allrecipes.com" does it, but I would imagine that it has more to do with the fact that 1) suing someone else for copyright infringement is expensive, and 2) most people don't bother to register their copyrights, which means that any recovery they would get, assuming they could win, is very limited.

I didn't mean to scare you out of your plans -- everything I noted is correct. However, the reality is, very little about recipes is considered "creative" -- maybe some of the specific verbage, maybe the fonts, etc. However, there are only so many ways to say "preheat to 350 degrees" -- it is unlikely that ANY permutation of that phrase could be found to have enough "creative" content seperate from its "useful" content to make that phrase copyrightable.

EDIT: One other thing -- copyright only protects against copying -- that should be obvious from the name. But, in reality, what this means is that if two people come up with the same recipe, and even use the exact same language to describe their recipes, there hasn't been "infringement" since neither copied the other. Of course, if someone else serendipitously came up with a "new" novel that used exactly the same plot, characters and language, as, say, the latest Grisham novel, the courts would never believe that the second author came up with their work independently. However, in a recipe, where you are simply describing steps, the language you could use is much more limited, so it is completely possible for two indendent people to come up with exactly the same (or very nearly so) recipe, including the wording. This means that the person who has to prove infringement -- and that is the person doing the suing -- may have a tough time even showing copying. That's another reason why it is tough to show infringment when you are talking about recipes.

So, for all practical purposes, the chances of you getting into trouble are slim. That doesn't mean that someone won't try to sue you if indeed someone does post something cut-and-pasted from a copyrighted source -- but it does mean that it is something you probably don't need to worry a lot about.

So, if you make it clear that you won't accept any "copyrighted" material, and have a policy of removing any material that someone later claims is infringing, that should pretty much cover you -- not legally, of course, but for all practical purposes.