The company I work for is selling dangerous products (Electrical and Explosive Gas)

[Plugger2]

Massachusetts

Hello,

The company I work for is selling dangerous products. Do I need a lawyer? Can I personally be sued? What should I do to legally protect myself. What is the moral or right thing to do?

I work as a field service and in-house service engineer for a Chinese company that is starting a new division here in the US. The company makes automated or robotic equipment. The products are all manufactured in China but we have a demo lab here in the US where I work. I service or repair and help pre and post sales. I have been finding many, many electrical code violations as well as explosive gas code violations. The safety level is very scary.

For example, a customer bought a product 3 years ago. I have been with the company 7 months. Now, the customer needs a repair or information to repair it themselves. I have just seen videos on the product and there are obvious US code violations having to do with OSHA and explosive gas handling devices.

There are many code violations on lots of products. I helped them find the electrical code, but products are still getting to customers with violations even after I told them what code they must comply with. I cannot keep up with my job, let alone take pictures of everything to give them a show and tell about code violations all over the place. There are so many products. It takes diligent research to find the exact way to do something when complying with codes. I can't keep up and they have great difficulty understanding the code language themselves. It is not my specialty either. I volunteered to help find code problems, but I cannot find everything and products are shipped direct from China. I never see some of the products. I am the only engineer in the US. Also, this is usually done by electrical design engineers. I am a mechanical engineer with a lot of electrical self-study.

What do I do? Do I need a lawyer?

Thanks in advance!
Plugger2

 

[quincy]

Massachusetts

Hello,

The company I work for is selling dangerous products. Do I need a lawyer? Can I personally be sued? What should I do to legally protect myself. What is the moral or right thing to do?

I work as a field service and in-house service engineer for a Chinese company that is starting a new division here in the US. The company makes automated or robotic equipment. The products are all manufactured in China but we have a demo lab here in the US where I work. I service or repair and help pre and post sales. I have been finding many, many electrical code violations as well as explosive gas code violations. The safety level is very scary.

For example, a customer bought a product 3 years ago. I have been with the company 7 months. Now, the customer needs a repair or information to repair it themselves. I have just seen videos on the product and there are obvious US code violations having to do with OSHA and explosive gas handling devices.

There are many code violations on lots of products. I helped them find the electrical code, but products are still getting to customers with violations even after I told them what code they must comply with. I cannot keep up with my job, let alone take pictures of everything to give them a show and tell about code violations all over the place. There are so many products. It takes diligent research to find the exact way to do something when complying with codes. I can't keep up and they have great difficulty understanding the code language themselves. It is not my specialty either. I volunteered to help find code problems, but I cannot find everything and products are shipped direct from China. I never see some of the products. I am the only engineer in the US. Also, this is usually done by electrical design engineers. I am a mechanical engineer with a lot of electrical self-study.

What do I do? Do I need a lawyer?

Thanks in advance!
Plugger2

These dangerous products are being imported into the U.S. from China?

 

[Plugger2]

Please give me some suggestions!

These dangerous products are being imported into the U.S. from China?

Yes. We have almost 20 automated devices here in the demo space. These are all robotic instruments that plug into a 120VAC outlet. The company has about 60 products with variations to make a total of around 100 different ones. I have absolutely no engineering drawings. They are all kept close. I took the job thinking that they did their research and knew how to meet codes. The don't. I could never imagine making an unsafe product. I have to support products that are sometimes custom made and direct shipped to the customer. I don't see all the products, and in the ones I do see, I keep finding dangerous faults. Some are more threatening than others. I am documenting and sending photos to the factory currently. I told them months ago that NFPA 79 is the law according to the US National Electrical Code.

For example, I find a device where you have to put your hands into a tank full of water. But, the device can accidentally be used incorrectly about four different ways that will lead to water pumping into is own electrical enclosure. This means that water will contact the insulation of 120VAC wires. In addition, there is no GFIC.

What do I need to do to legally protect myself while I address this in the strongest terms possible to the company officers? You know, if I say something about the possible dangers to a customer, I will loose my job. But, I am obligated to say something.

 

[quincy]

Yes. We have almost 20 automated devices here in the demo space. These are all robotic instruments that plug into a 120VAC outlet. The company has about 60 products with variations to make a total of around 100 different ones. I have absolutely no engineering drawings. They are all kept close. I took the job thinking that they did their research and knew how to meet codes. The don't. I could never imagine making an unsafe product. I have to support products that are sometimes custom made and direct shipped to the customer. I don't see all the products, and in the ones I do see, I keep finding dangerous faults. Some are more threatening than others. I am documenting and sending photos to the factory currently. I told them months ago that NFPA 79 is the law according to the US National Electrical Code.

For example, I find a device where you have to put your hands into a tank full of water. But, the device can accidentally be used incorrectly about four different ways that will lead to water pumping into is own electrical enclosure. This means that water will contact the insulation of 120VAC wires. In addition, there is no GFIC.

What do I need to do to legally protect myself while I address this in the strongest terms possible to the company officers? You know, if I say something about the possible dangers to a customer, I will loose my job. But, I am obligated to say something.

If the products are being imported into the U.S. and they have serious safety issues, you can contact US Customs and Border Protection and report a suspected trade violation. You can file an "e-allegation" online.

The way to do this is to go to the government website at one of the following addresses: http://www.cbp.gov (which is the home page) or http://www.cbp.gov/trade (see the box on the right for trade violations) or https://apps.cbp.gov/eallegations/ (for the report page).

 

[Plugger2]

Can CBP be notified anonymously

If the products are being imported into the U.S. and they have serious safety issues, you can contact US Customs and Border Protection and report a suspected trade violation. You can file an "e-allegation" online.

The way to do this is to go to the government website at one of the following addresses: http://www.cbp.gov (which is the home page) or http://www.cbp.gov/trade (see the box on the right for trade violations) or https://apps.cbp.gov/eallegations/ (for the report page).

Thank you very much for the suggestion! I did not think of that. I will consider it.

The people in the company I work for are very nice and they mean well. If they know what to fix, they will do it. There is no question, with the least quality possible, but they will do it. My goal is to help them, and in doing so, keep the job that I need and like. The problem is that things are happening faster than I can keep up with. There are many of them and one of me. If I notify CBP, can I do it anonymously, or pretending to be a competitor? I just want the company to slow down and get it right so that no customers get hurt. The standards over there are like, wow, dangerous! Are there other things I can do? Even if I do this, do I need legal help?

 

[Plugger2]

Do I need legal counsel?

Great Advice! Do I need legal counsel? Right now customers are using products that do not meet US safety code.

 

[quincy]

Great Advice! Do I need legal counsel? Right now customers are using products that do not meet US safety code.

It couldn't hurt.

 

[justalayman]

I would like to add that if these are plug in devices, or actually not an integral part of a construct, there are no electrical codes per se that are required to be followed. Their may be a UL listing requirement though.

For example, I find a device where you have to put your hands into a tank full of water. But, the device can accidentally be used incorrectly about four different ways that will lead to water pumping into is own electrical enclosure. This means that water will contact the insulation of 120VAC wires. In addition, there is no GFIC.

that is a UL issue, if UL applies. Additionally, if it is a plug in device, the simple answer would be to ensure it is plugged into a GFCI protected receptacle. You can also install GFCI protected circuits of higher voltages as well if needed but you aren't likely to find a pre-made receptacle of such a design.

and depending on what type of wire is used, water and the insulation coming into contact with each other may not be an issue. Many types of insulation are not only waterproof but actually designed to be submerged. If you have any wire running underground, whether it be buried directly in dirt or in conduit, is likely exposed to water.

Now, in an electrical enclosure, there are often devices and connections that are should not be exposed to water but you mentioned the insulation of the wires specifically so I spoke to that only.

 

[FlyingRon]

A UL listing is not necessarily required (though it sounds like they probably aren't complying with the general law that includes requirements for NRTC testing).
The people to complain to on things being sold is the http://www.cpsc.gov You'll see buttons to file complaints right on the main page.

 

[Zigner]

A UL listing is not necessarily required (though it sounds like they probably aren't complying with the general law that includes requirements for NRTC testing).
The people to complain to on things being sold is the http://www.cpsc.gov You'll see buttons to file complaints right on the main page.

psstt - thread is from April 2014

 

[FlyingRon]

psstt - thread is from April 2014

PSST...it must have been popped into the NEW TREADS list because of a deleted SPAM post or something.

 

[quincy]

PSST...it must have been popped into the NEW TREADS list because of a deleted SPAM post or something.

There have been a couple of newer posters who seem partial to adding little bits of questionable wisdom to old threads. It can take awhile for the moderators to return a revived thread to the archives, after a post has been reported.

To speed the process up, you can return the thread to the archives yourself if, AFTER you report the spam/troll post, you ADD a post of your own then EDIT/DELETE it. This sends the thread back where it belongs.

 

[Zigner]

PSST...it must have been popped into the NEW TREADS list because of a deleted SPAM post or something.

I know - happens to us all

 

[Just Blue]

There have been a couple of newer posters who seem partial to adding little bits of questionable wisdom to old threads. It can take awhile for the moderators to return a revived thread to the archives, after a post has been reported.

To speed the process up, you can return the thread to the archives yourself if, AFTER you report the spam/troll post, you ADD a post of your own then EDIT/DELETE it. This sends the thread back where it belongs.

Wicked good info!! Thanks Quincy!

 

[quincy]

Wicked good info!! Thanks Quincy!

You're welcome, Blue. I think I learned the trick from "Country Living," who used to do a beautiful job of cleaning up the forum after spammers got to it.