Does the attorney represent all 8 kids...

What is the name of your state? Oregon



I am seeking attorney to sue for wrongful death of 80 year old mother. It is a homicide by a Nursing Home. I paid a legal nurse to re-read all the medicals and she has her summary done. She tells us to sue for her death.

If I do sue, does this attorney represent estate only for wronngful death?

Does this attorney represent all 8 kids, or is that separate representation by each kids attorneys?

Wondering......and then why yes, or why not, on each question.

Thanks,

I paid a legal nurse to re-read all the medicals and she has her summary done. She tells us to sue for her death.

First of all, a legal nurse is not qualified to give advice as to whether or not you have a legal cause of action. All she's qualified to give you is an opinion as to the level of care your mother received.

Does this attorney represent all 8 kids, or is that separate representation by each kids attorneys?

This depends entirely on your specific understanding with the attorney. He could either sue in the name of the estate, in which case he would represent all the recipients of the estate, or he could bring suit in the name of one or more children. That's a decision your attorney should make based on the merits of the case and each child's participation.

I have no idea how much experience your "legal nurse" has, or her qualifications. I do believe, however, that any intelligent person with some medical background can read a set of medical records and give you an answer. The nurse may tell you that you have a reason to think you have a legitimate "cause of action", but no one can predict whether or not a lawyer can win a malpractice case. Cause of action (or a legal set of events) is a term used by lawyers to identify a particular reason for sueing. I do not agree with the first answer to your question. If this nurse said you have a "cause of action", you probably do.
As for the second part of the answer, your advisor is correct. You should be prepared at the time you see a lawyer to ask questions like, "Will you represent one or all of the children?" When you talk to a lawyer you will be wise to have a written list of questions for which you expect answers.

For wrongful death, negligence, by the nursing home.

They literally treated symptoms to help her eat.

Never weighed upon admission.

Weighed only by day 13, lost 20 pounds by then.

Lost another 12-15 by the day w took her out.

She died 5 days later at my home. I paid for autopsy and it showed she had an iliac aneurysm also, no cancer.

Diet change and a pill to help her eat in a matter of time.

Begging for water and wanted to know why she was not able to eat or drink.

We had 13 days of no care planning for our mother. Then to have another 6 days of nothing to save her life.

Nurse removed her own doctor and replaced him with their doctor, without us notified of this being done by a nurse. saying that her civil rights were being violated!!!!!!!! If so, it was by them. This is their higher directive they say.

Then this doctor saw her 4 days later and I had to fight staff for his number and finally got to reach him by day 5 of his care over her.

Then he wanted a POA to tube feed her. Told me a story that feeding her would put her into a coma and die....liar.

Now this is day 18 of 19 days of her stay, for we went the next day and took her out, dying!!! Imagine being told that she wanted to stay and get stronger!!!!!!!!!

My God, I almost slapped that social worker as she told me that crap. It took us 3 hours to get her out after all was said and done.

Nursing homes routinely assign their own doctors to their patients. Why patients or their families do nothing about this is life's biggest mystery. Sue the bums.

[ellencee]

hexeliebe
A legal nurse consultant can review records and make statements on all care rendered by all disciplines and make statements as to whether or not malpractice, negligence, or deviance from the standard(s) of care occurred. Legal nurse consulting is not just a made-up term; it is a bonafide career-field in nursing (RNs).

An attorney is the only one who can say whether or not the malpractice or negligence meets the terms of the law that allow a claim, or lawsuit, for medical malpractice, and whether or not the claim is worth pursuing in a court of law. An attorney can not make the determination of malpractice; that is decided by the applicable licensing board.

Jack Shroder
Your statement, "I do believe, however, that any intelligent person with some medical background can read a set of medical records and give you an answer." is an insult to every medical board and nursing board, everywhere; and, to every physician, nurse, anethesist, pharmacist, dietician, etc.

Your statement borders on being the most egotistical and uneducated remark I have ever seen. Why don't you just have a person with a BA in macrame give you your next medical care? The person will surely be intelligent and surely will have some medical background. You shoud recover just fine and look great with your limbs and appendages tied in decorative knots.


STARVINGMOMA

I don't have the records to review and do not have any facts, including dates, on which to base a professional opinion (certified legal nurse consultant). However, based on your report of the events, it is possible that negligence occurred and it is possible that negligence did not occur.

It is not unusual for an elderly person to die within days of being admitted to a nursing home. It is not unusual for an elderly person who has been admitted to a nursing home to simply quit eating or drinking. It is not unusual for an elderly person to appear cooperative and needy when the family is present and appear quite the opposite when the family is not present.

The standards of care by which the facility was required to deliver care are available online for most states (for facilities that receive Medicare and, or, Medicaid funding). You can find these on the web and compare the events as documented in the records. More than likely, the only benefit you will gain by doing so is to find out whether or not the standards regarding initial care planning and physician services were met.

POA tubes do not cause comas, but the feedings may cause comas if the body is not able to properly filter the waste from these feedings. POA tubes are not the normal method of obtaining foods and liquids, thus, it is a stressor on the body and complications and side effects do occur. It is a misconception to believe that feeding tubes come without negative impact(s) upon the human body. Once placed and feedings begun, a feeding tube can not simply be discontinued and can result in a court having to order its removal.

Most nursing homes do transfer the care of the patient to their physician and it is stated in the admission papers. Families who wish for their relative to continue under the care of their private physician are generally required to provide the services and not the nursing home. Most nursing homes require that residents agree to receive services from their physician in conjunction with any private physician.

For your original questions, an attorney would represent the estate's interests and would do so through the administrator of the estate, who would then divide any gains among the heirs. I don't think it would be advantageous for each heir to have an attorney representing only his or her interests, but believe the opposite.

Medmal attorneys generally offer free consultation appointments. I recommend that you take the records, the legal nurse's report, and any notes that were made during the time, or a diary of events, and take advantage of a free consultation visit with a medmal attorney in your area.

Best wishes,
EC

Just a point of order Ellencee:

I paid a legal nurse to re-read all the medicals and she has her summary done. She tells us to sue for her death.

That is legal advice and not part of the duties you described nor the duties ascribed to the Legal nurse.

And that's what I said. She/he is not qualified to give legal advice. I agree that she/he is qualified to ascertain whether the Nursing Home followed the procedures necessary and prescribed for their state and he/she can make an assertion as to the legal remedies open to the poster.

What the statement tells me is 1. she offered legal advice and 2. she made the assumption that the nursing home 'caused' the death.

That's a dangerous thing to say in ANY circumstance.

[ellencee]

So far, I've not heard the legal nurse say anything and I have not read any word she has written.

I have only the original writer's interpretation of what the legal nurse said or wrote.

Legal Nurse consultants do render professional opinions as to whether or not medical records or events support or do not support claims for malpractice, including wrongful death. To do so is not to practice law.

That I can agree with. However, and I also agree all we have is what the poster wrote, I have to read what was written and advise on that basis.

And the poster wrote:

She tells us to sue for her death.

And that goes beyond stating an opinion based on the facts.

I would say at this point the poster needs a 'written' opinion from the Legal Nurse and then quote it verbatim here so that we can know to a certainty what was said.

[ellencee]

The information (whether verbal or written) given by the legal nurse is none of our business and it is not the issue at hand.

If the nursing home caused the woman's death, then I think the heirs should sue for wrongful death, too. That's not legal advice anymore than if I tell you 'if you plan to rob the local convenience store clerks at gunpoint and in the process of robbing them, you kill someone, you're going to be charged with premeditated murder'.

Sure, I used legal terms in both scenarios, but I did not give legal advice. I just 'talked' like any normal person would or could.

And where in the post is it proven that the Nursing home 'caused' her death? All we KNOW for sure is the mother died 5 days after being removed from the nursing home.

Sorry to be so cynical but this is a matter for an attorney based on findings of facts.

Chronology of Events for......(LP)......her name

2/8/02 Hospital ER diagnosis—bronchitis

2/13-16 Hospital diagnosis---pneumonia

2/16-23 D Care Unit

2/27/02 Hospital ER diagnosis—abdominal pain

2/28/02 Dr. Second Opinion diagnosis—ER follow-up

3/4/02 Hospital ER diagnosis—viral syndrome

3/8/02 Clinic Dr. New Primary diagnosis—sacroiliac pain

3/12-21 Hospital C difficle disease, urosepsis, atrial fib

3/21-4/10 Rehab

4/11/02 Clinic Dr. New Primary diagnosis—significant debility
(the one that was removed for negligence see's mother)

4/15/02 Death of (LP)
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Chronology of Weight for (LP)

2/18/02 122 D Care Unit within Hospital

2/23/02 132 D Care Unit within Hospital

2/28/02 136 ANOTHER CLINIC IN TOWN

3/8/02 135 New Clinic MD-Intake

3/19/02 147 Hospital

3/20/02 140 Hospital

4/2/02 120 Rehab

4/3/02 118 Rehab

4/14/02 100 Hospital Home Care
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Chronology of Orders for (LP)

3/22 MD notified difficulty with meals,
orders Speech Therapy swallow evaluation

3/26 New Primary MD faxes order OK above

3/27 Speech Therapy ordered
3x week x 2 weeks
to determine least restricting diet & texture

3/27 Speech Therapy recommends liquid decreased and
then smooth pureed

3/28 Increase Lasix to 80 mg daily

3/29 Keep potassium supplements the same

3/30 Made DNR status

3/30 MD notified poor appetite requesting Megace

4/1 Celexa for depression

4/2 MD responds back OK Megace 400 twice daily

4/3 Discontinue Speech Therapy order
patient does not have dentures in place

4/3 Nurse "T" sends order requesting release patient to Dr. ?

4/8 Dr. Residential sees and examines patient
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Strengths of Medical Records for (LP)

Rehab facility charting deficiencies

No documented weight on admission
Provide substitutes and/ or increase oral intake

Well-documented concern re:

poor nutritional intake without appropriate intervention, specific plan of action

Repeated documentation as to poor oral/ dietary intake

Did not do their own professional recommendations with respect to monitoring nutrition

Provide substitutes if intake < 50% Weekly weights

Notify Nurse Case Manger if >3pounds change

Failure to consider differential diagnosis of peripheral edema (i.e.: frequent side effect of Cardizem) or possible hypoalbuminemia; choosing instead gave client more diuretics worsening existing dehydration

Increased use of diuretics in obviously dehydrated patient (order to increase Lasix from 20 mg daily to 80 mg)

Failure of nursing staff to use lab results of 4/3/02 (hypoglycemia, hyponatremia, hypochloridemia, decreased anion gap) to further evaluate hydration status

Failure to use lab results of 4/3/02 (hypoglycemia, hyponatremia, hypochloridemia, decreased anion gap) to recommend medication evaluation by physician

Failure to provide aspiration precautions despite identifying this as potential risk

Failure to adequately evaluate patient’s true condition on MDS assessment 3/22/02 section J fluid status, section K nutritional status

4/3/02 section J fluid status, section K nutritional status Nutritional assessment

4/2/02 failed to accurately assess true condition of patient’s status Failure of dietician to incorporate lab results of

4/3/02 (hypoglycemia, hyponatremia, hypochloridemia, decreased anion gap) to make specific recommendations

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Red Flags of Medical Records for (LP)

Psychosocial issues Family problems—Private, sorry

Significant medical problems

COPD Previous hear attack (MI)
Congestive heart failure TMJ surgery Asthma (RAD)
Back surgery
Dementia
Chronic leg pain
Hypothyroidism
Osteoporosis
Chronic edema
Past history of heavy tobacco NONE, "exposure"

Multiple risk factors for abdominal aortic aneurysm

Age
Exposed To Smokers
Extensive atheriosclerosis (CAD)
Heart disease documented on echocardiogram

Summary of Case for (LP)

This elderly woman had multiple serious medical problems and required frequent hospitalizations for the last several months of her life, in particular the last 10 weeks.

The question has been raised; did the failure to diagnose the abdominal aortic aneurysm constitute medical negligence in this case?

I think given this woman’s age, the complexity of her medical problems and general poor health, it is very unlikely that it would have had a significant impact on the outcome in this case.

She had multiple risk factors for development of an abdominal aortic aneurysm (see Red Flags)
and would have been a very poor surgical candidate in the rare event she would have been considered for such surgery.

I believe a far more critical aspect of (Mrs. P) care was not the medical care she received rather the lack of care she received in the South Salem Rehabilitation facility, where it appears she was essentially a victim of malnourishment and dehydration.

As evidenced in the one month prior to her admission to the Rehabilitation facility, her weight was consistently recorded 132-147 based on scale variations.

She was not weighed upon admission to this facility rather the first weight taken on (Mrs. P) at this facility was on her 13th day of admission when she weighed 120.

This represents a 20-pound weight loss in two weeks.

While there is well-documented concern for (Mrs. P) nutritional status, the nursing and dietary assessments were faulty because they failed to adequately evaluate her true status using accurate weights, laboratory parameters and clinical condition.

Instead they focused merely on medications to treat symptoms (i.e.: peripheral edema) thereby exacerbating her dehydration and compromising her nutritional status.

The interventions were inappropriate given the severity of her condition and failed to meet the standard of care.

---------------------------------------------------------------

It is of interest, that there is an average of 7 deficiencies (range 0-32) for nursing home inspections in the State of Oregon.

On the most recent inspection in November 2002 the Rehab facility had 15 deficiencies

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I would encourage the family of (Mrs. P) to pursue further action on behalf of their mother’s care for

nursing home neglect/ negligence,

wrongful death,

and loss of companionship.

starvingmoma

I read the entire post you just submitted and was very pleased to have read it, until the last sentence. That last sentence COULD ( notice I said could ) cause the legal nurse's opinion to be devalued in the eyes of the court or a jury because, although the rest of the evaluation was factual, the last statement was an editorial judgement not based on facts.

Yes, she/he had every right to tell you of her/his opinion, but to place it in the official document,(that the nursing home's attorney will definately subpoena in discovery) is a gross error in judgement.

I hope things turn out for you. I am not as cynical as others may think. I just respect facts more than opinion and if I had received this evaluation I would have returned it and asked that all unfounded opinions not based on fact be deleted.

Made Corrections, viewed, commented on, deleted, ok?

Believe it or not I am on your side. The summary of findings is very detailed and should stand on their own.

However, I should tell you that it really doesn't matter if the offending 'opinion' is on the summary or in your e-mail. The opposing attorney could still subpoena any 'correspondence' between you and the legal nurse concerning the matter and use that opinion to discredit her in court.

Please don't ever reveal that kind of information again. It only hurts her credibility and exposes you.